Gun Control Fight Not Over Yet

The one thing I have not heard on any of the forums, and am surprised not here either.

Anyone remember when the IRS could claim you owed more tax and it was up to you to prove you did not??? You know, guilty until proven innocent?

Well, that is exactly the present BGC and the proposed universal BGC is... It is completely contrary to English Common Law, and US jurisprudence, that is contrary to the presumption of innocence.

The whole concept of a BGC is that you are assumed to be guilty of a disqualifying criminal action, until proven otherwise...No?

Consider the 4th CCA decision in Black. The carrying of a weapon, when it can be legal, must be assumed to be legal unless there is some exceptional circumstance that would give reason to assume otherwise.
 
Schumer, Manchin, and Toomey. Hammer these three relentlessly. Schumer and Manchin are rabid about getting something done. Not so much with Toomey, but threats to vote him out will get him to distance himself from the other two. As always, get to the point where your local reps know your name and how you feel about your firearms rights.
 
BarryLee~Senator Manchin is reworking his Bill to gain support and hopes to still get it passed this session.
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Watched him on FOX w/CW a couple of times yesterday, unbelievable.
I'd be curious his answer to a few easy questions "what are you waiting for, what has to happen before you reintroduce it...exactly?"
Vulture, waiting for some kind of tragedy.

Interview footage has found it's way to u-tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADUFp5b3oYc
 
Some video. According to Manchin, we just didn't understand the beauty of the amendment the first time, but if he explains it to us it will pass the second time. What audacity. I met a great many West Virginians through my involvement with road rallys, and not all of them are in love with Joe. If you are one of those, it is important to write, and I thank you if you do.
 
For the life of me i can't understand why the GOA and NRA have not called Manchin and Toomey "anti-gun leaders" and regraded both F-.
 
For the life of me i can't understand why the GOA and NRA have not called Manchin and Toomey "anti-gun leaders" and regraded both F-.
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I suspect that both their ratings will be downgraded by the time they're up for re-election.
 
I suspect that both their ratings will be downgraded by the time they're up for re-election.
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If there has been any real positive associated with the recent attack on freedom is that it has given us a better idea of where people stand. Many of the fence sitters were forced to take a clear position and now it’s up to us to hold them accountable. However, the problem is that in many areas these folks may still end up being the better of two bad choices.
 
For the life of me i can't understand why the GOA and NRA have not called Manchin and Toomey "anti-gun leaders" and regraded both F-.
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My guess is that they're attempting to retain at least some degree of leverage over these two, though one can certainly argue the merits of that approach. Presumably they are looking at other battles down the road that they think they can bring one or both of these guys into the fold on.
 
They should be re-graded, significantly lower.
....in states with high rates of citizen carry, where thousands of responsible gun owners have become licensed...
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I love living in a state where we need no nanny government permission slip to be armed. The 2A doesn't say, "being properly licensed, registered, insured and permitted, the people shall have the privilege of being armed, subject to constant redefinition."
I understand, many of you live in states where they allow you to exercise your privileges after they say it's OK to do so, and I hope that that changes ASAP to freedom soon.

As to this bill, keep the pressure on, though I am fairly certain Schumer is a completely lost cause - his district is completely safe from sanity.
 
I've been seeing the same talking points being drummed over and over on various media (TV, newspaper articles, letters to the editor) this past week: Senators who voted against the BC are "cowardly" (as opposed to those brave men and women who voted "Yes" based on opinion polls), the BC bill doesn't take away any guns, it in no way facilitates registration, common sense, blah, blah, blah. Its like an orchestrated campaign to propogandize the uninformed even more to try to get their bad bill passed.
 
It also amuses me how the gun haters always talk about AR15s and the like being "weapons of mass destruction that belong on battlefields, not our streets", but when they are brought up as being tools for resisting government tyranny, you hear "your puny little rifles would be useless against the US military".
 
They should be re-graded, significantly lower.
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They should be downgraded to "F" ratings immediately. It's one thing to waffle on gun control, or not to actively support it. It's something altogether different to push for it. That includes Quisling measures like the Toomey/Manchin amendment that might help chances of passage.
 
I don't think a universal check requirement like Schmer's has a chance. A bill like the Manchin Toomey compromise that expands checks but doesn't go as far as Schumer's might pass.
 
Manchin and Toomey are what the GOA refers to as "gun control leaders". Gun control leaders propose and push gun control: They are awarded an F-: Fits Manchin and Toomey to a T.

F- Anti-Gun Leader: outspoken anti-gun advocate who carries anti-gun legislation.
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If enough NRA members called the NRA and demanded Manchin and Toomey be downgraded to F immediately it would be done. i will call the NRA tomorrow.
 
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I agree with the OP that the fight is far from over.

If my understanding is correct, the amendment voted on last week required 60 votes to pass because of a senate rule to bypass open debate. There was a majority to pass it but not the 60 votes needed. Is that correct?

Given that, I would put money on Schumer et al reintroducing it and opening it up for debate hoping for it to pass the senate by majority. Most of them already have their minds firmly made up anyway, and the numbers probably won't change by a significant amount.

What the House does is a different story.
 
Originally Posted by breaking contact
What responsibilities or obligations do the 2nd Amendment defenders have in regards to not just defending the 2nd Amendment, but to promoting the actual solutions to crime?
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Our biggest responsibility or obligation as gun owners in defending our 2nd Amendment and promoting solutions to crime is knowing who we vote for.

IMO, there are lessons we can learn as gun owners about how we prioritize our gun rights and we don't have to go far to learn them. Just do a history search right here on TFL of the Bush/Obama presidential campaign era and you'll find many a gun owner that made statements reflecting the attitude of... 'if Obama gets elected, he'll have to much to do to worry about gun control'... or posts declaring there were more important things then gun control/2nd Amendment the next pres. will have to deal with.

Fast forward to today and what do we have...a president that was anti 2nd Amendment before he became pres. that has found time to exercise his anti 2nd Amendment agenda prompted by other elected anti 2nd Amendment politicians. Using crime as an excuse for promoting their anti agenda's.
A little research and we find there is nothing new about using the 'crime' strategy by the anti's for promoting their AWB agenda.

Maybe we as gun owners need to re-prioritize the importance of our 2nd Amendment rights ,vet our candidates on their views of these rights and their views on fighting crime then vote accordingly.

Even when gun control/crime is not the 'hot topic' of the day.
 
Just got off the phone with a representative of the NRA-ILA. The nice gentleman informed me that senators Manchin and Toomey will be downgraded when they run for re-election. i'm the very first person the gentleman has talked to on this subject. He will bring the subject up to his bosses at their next meeting.

Meanwhile Manchin and Toomey are using their positions as A rated senators to to push their version of "common sense" gun control.

The decision to downgrade the NRA rating of a politician rests with the highest circles of the NRA. i may attend the NRA convention and personally accost a member of the NRA board, the executive vice president or the president.
 
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Tom Servo:
But they'll do that anyway. Even if they'd gotten S. 649 passed, the next tragedy would be a call for more gun controls.
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I totally agree. The anti gun folks will take whatever you give them now, and use that as a step stool to move the ball towards their goals, not ours. Take the Colin Ferguson shooting as one prime example. He shot a number of people on a mass transit train in New York, where most people cannot have a handgun and certainly cannot legally carry one in public. He bought his gun in California, where they had a 15 day waiting period.

What did the left do? They immediately called for and passed a whole slew of new gun control laws in New York. They sent the wife of one of the victims to Washington as their representative in the House. though she'd never held public office. She ran exclusively on a gun control platform. The anti gun folks will use any crisis as a catalyst to gin up fear and emotion, in order to pass more gun control laws.
 
If there has been any real positive associated with the recent attack on freedom is that it has given us a better idea of where people stand. Many of the fence sitters were forced to take a clear position and now it’s up to us to hold them accountable. However, the problem is that in many areas these folks may still end up being the better of two bad choices.
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That's why primary challengers are important.
 
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