Guard Dogs

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Equalizer -

I hope nobody took me seriously. I love these little miniature Dachshunds of mine, but they really are just about worthless as a guard dog. OTOH, they will make noise if someone is trying to "breach the perimeter" so aside from the joy they give us, I guess that makes them worth keeping around.

FWIW, Dachshunds (standard size, that is) were originally bred for badger hunting. Having said that, I reckon anything that was willing to go into a burrow and drag a badger out is not something I'd want fixated on my calves, ankles, or feet... :eek:

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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
Wow! Now this is what I call a response!! To answer the questions, I'm looking at places in NE MD or SE PA, wooded lots of 3-5 acres in rural areas with private access roads.

The dog would be both inside and outside, a member of the family. There are no kids as of yet, but that would likely change down the road a ways. I have been known to hunt waterfowl and boar on rare occassions. But I don't need a dog for either of those pursuits. I am able to spend a good deal of time training the animal. He/She would also likely travel with me to/from the office somewhat often, so a good "people sense" would need to be instilled

I have previously had Belgian Shepherds, Golden Labs, Dobies, and mutts. I don't think I'd go for a repeat of any except a Dobie, but would like to try a different breed.

In terms of duties, I'd see the dog as having a high defense drive. He'd also be part of the overall defense in depth plan to the new homestead.

I was considering a Bullmastiff, but Lawdog's comments have made me pause. Had also looked at Rotties, but there is a lot of poor stock out there.

Again, thanks for the excellent input. I know I can always expect the best from TFL-ers.
 
Bulldozer -

In the interest of ensuring you get exactly the right type of dog for your needs, it might be useful to look at how some various breeds handle common household tasks, such as - How many dogs does it take to change a light bulb?

Answers:

Golden Retriever: "The sun is shining, the day is young, we've got our whole lives ahead of us, and you're inside worrying about a stupid burned-out light bulb?"

Border Collie: "Just one. And I'll replace any wiring that's not up to code."

Dachshund: "I can't reach the stupid lamp!"

Toy Poodle: "I'll just blow in the Border Collie's ear and he'll do it. By the time he finishes rewiring the house, my nails will be dry."

Rottweiler: "Go Ahead! Make me!"

Shih-tzu: "Puh-leeze, dah-ling. Let the servants. . . ."

Lab: "Oh, me, me!!! Pleeeeeeze let me change the light bulb! Can I? Can I? Huh? Huh? Can I?"

Malamute: "Let the Border collie do it. You can feed me while he's busy."

Doberman Pinscher: "While it's dark, I'm going to sleep on the couch."

Mastiff: "Mastiffs are NOT afraid of the dark."

Hound Dog: "Zzzzzzz…"

Chihuahua: "Yo quiero Taco Bulb."

Pointer: "I see it, there it is, right there..."

Greyhound: "It isn't moving. Who cares?"

Old English Sheep Dog: "Light bulb? Light bulb? That thing I just ate was a light bulb?"

Hope this helps... :D






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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
Well I guess I'll throw my $.02 in...

Bulldozer, based on your description of the role you would like this dog to play in your family and household, many of the dogs mentioned would fit the bill in one degree or another. I was looking for the same type of characteristics in a dog when I was deciding on a breed. I've ended up with a German Shepherd from German lines. BIG difference between American GSD's and German GSD's. Ranger is now just over a year old, and let me tell you is an amazing dog. Truly loyal and protective with my wife and me. Completely alert of everything going on around the house (and the whole block), but also very steady. He is a very social dog with people, including children, and other animals, however he has a keen sense of what's "good" and what's "bad." I can read him by the tone of his bark just how cautioned I should be at his alert. It hasn't come without a fair amount of training, but most of it is instinct. I can't believe this dog is only a year old - his maturity is astounding... I have no question in my mind that this dog would die for me.

That said, if you decide to pursue a German Shepherd, do your homework to find a good one. There are a lot of crap dogs out there being bred. I'd be happy to help you out if you decide such.

Good luck!

AKrob
 
Mk86, that's hilarious! :)

Bulldozer, you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned "poor stock". FAR MORE important that which BREED is which BREEDER of your chosen breed. I highly, highly recommend researching your breeder carefully and diligently. There are a bazillion backyard breeders out there turning out terrible dogs of all breeds, but particularly the popular ones. Rotties are one of the finest species on earth if from a good line with close ties to German blood or of rock solid American stock. But there are thousands of dumbass backyard Rottie breedies (and Dobies, and Akitas, and you-name-it). I would advise you to do these things:

1. Buy and read "How to Pick Your Purebred Puppy" or similar title- this lady is very knowledgeable, and "The Art of Raising a Puppy" by the monks of New Skete.

2. Pick a breeder who's not in it for the money, but for the love of the breed. Visit the kennel and make sure it a professional, clean setup, with much attention paid to the dogs. Don't ever buy from a backyard breeder or pet store under any circumstances. Your odds of getting a good dog would be better just getting a good ol mutt from the pound. And AKC registration tells you absolutely NOTHING, zero, nilch, about the quality of the dog. Anyone in the world can find two registered dogs, start breeding them, and fill out some paperwork. Interview the breeder. Ask the tough question. Make them tell you about the lines and the strengths and weaknesses of their dogs. Have them give you facts and stats about the dogs, regarding health, temperament, etc. Where did they place their dogs, and do they keep in touch with the owners? Do they care about the breed? If they are breeding more than 1 or 2 different breeds, they probably care nothing about the breed, but only about the money, which is a big red flag for you. Nothing is worse than getting attached to a puppy, then have it come down with major health problems in 4 or 5 years. Your much better off spending $750.00 for a good quality dog now, than $2,000 to $5,000 in vet bills down the road, only to have the dog suffer and/or die. It's also much better to search for 6 mos to a couple of years for the right breed & breeder than to get the wrong dog. I know I'm ranting, and you probably don't need this much info, but I'm on a roll..... If you don't have kids yet, then I do advise AGAINST an Akita, German Shepherds, Belgian Shepherds and Rotties, as well as against Chow-chows and Dalmations, because certain dogs of these breeds, esp. Akitas, even some of good breeding, will have such a dominating instinct that that could potentially view a new baby as a threat to their territory and harm or kill kids that were not around them as a puppy. These breeds are biters! Now if the puppy is raised around at least one small child, then it will usually accept all small children in the future without any problems.

Retrievers (Goldens, Labs, Flat-coated, Chesapeake Bay, etc.) may or may not be good guard dogs, depending on their temperament. Same goes for herding breeds like Border Collies, Aussie Shepherds, Aussie heelers, North American Shepherds, etc. Terriers, dachshunds, and the like will certainly bark well, just not visually intimidate well. Yeah, Rod. Ridgebacks are very good. Also, Airedale Terriers are generally good watchdogs. Airedales and Standard Poodles are actually pretty large dogs, and can be intimidating, as someone mentioned.

3. Try to stay at home for a full week when you get the puppy, to house-train it and help it adapt to your surroundings. Try to get the puppy at the age of 7-13 weeks, preferably at the 8 or 9-week age. USE A CRATE to house-train the puppy in the exact manner described in "Art of Raising a Puppy". When you do this, house-training is a "whiz" instead of a nightmare.

Email me with any questions, and I'll try to help.
 
Bulldozer,

Please do look at the Bullmastiffs. While Khan has forgotten what to do at the command "Search!", he combines a good-humoured, 'laid-back' quality with a devoted protectiveness.

I am told by breeders that this is pretty much standard for the breed.

My ex-fiancee's daughter and her friends rode him like a horse, pulled his ears and probably bit his tail, but he never once offered to bite any of them.

When a critter kicked in my door to discuss his dissatisfaction at being arrested and at the amount of bond required to get out, Khan abused him pretty thoroughly. I have heard of other dogs turning mean or aggressive after such an event. Khan went back to his "What, me worry?" attitude.

Talk to some breeders and read some books. I think you will be quite impressed with the Bullmastiff.

LawDog
 
Mutts tend to be healthier than pure breds.. some of the coolest dogs I have met were of the "Heinz 57" variety. With names like "JD" (Just Dog) BUD (butt ugly dog) or Brownie (he's a westvirginia brown dog).

But I really miss my English Springer Spaniel named Bear. He was a liver and white short-haired field doggy and had great instinct and was stockily built at about 55 pounds. Springers don't bark (unless they are taught to) and when they DO , something is up. That old muscle headed dog was a good companion and a natural hunter.. a pretty good watch dog and good with kids. If I move back to the "country" or suburbia I'd like to get another springer.

If want a really willful breed that thinks its job is to take things that are not his, howl and scamper and dig large foxholes all over your property.. yet still looks cute enough to keep you from scolding it too much, get a beagle. Mom and Dad's beagle is adorable.. but I think they need a lot of room to burn off all tyhe excess energy beagles seem to posess, could be a good farm dog. On the bright side your propperty will be forever defended against the viet cong squirrel brigades that harass homes with less single minded dogs.

You can't go wrong with a shepard, everyone KNOWS thats a watch dog (even if he's a wimp) Shepards can be taught to do just about anything.. and they make awfully cute puppies and are sturdy and loyal.

and as far as kids go.. nothing can with stand the assault of a five year old weilding a fudgesicle like a big lovable lab. Sure they are pushovers (in YOUR house) but watch what happens when somebody gets too close to your kids. I think labs look at children as 'puppies" and get a bit paternalistic over them.


Dr.Rob
 
I have a 90# male Cheasapeke Bay retriever, and what Futo Ino said was correct. They can be great depending on temperment. Mine is highly protective of me and my wife. He doesn't take to strangers, but he barely barks. I wanted a friendly, goofy dog that eveyone would love,but for good or bad I got a less friendly, but protective dog.He comes from solid hunting stock going way back, and not "pet" lines. Chessies were once bred as commercial working dogs, period. They swam and hunted all day long, retrieving a hundred ducks a day from icy waters for their masters. When the men went ashore to sell their game to the local eateries, the dogs stayed with the boats to protect the guns, boat and equipment. So, over time this protectivenes was a favorable trait bred into dogs.

My dog is well trained, and socialized. He just takes a while to warm up to people. He's a good pup.

My advice on the Fila Brasileiro. I understand this is a lot of dog to handle and should not be considered unless you understand dogs very well, and are certain you can dominate them completely. Training is an absolute must.
 
German Shepherds are my first choice, always. I own one now. They are gentle with children, easily socialized, easily trained, and extremely loyal. They will actively seek out intruders. You will find no better companion dog. Find a good one, it will take time. Spend the extra money. You will never regret it. Good luck.
11xray

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Audemus jura nostra defendere
 
I cannot believe no one has
mentioned "Boxers". From the
Mastiff line, males can reach 75+
lbs. females 65+ lbs.

My 13 week old female (Brandi) is a pleasure.
Very intellegent, doesn't bark at
anything that shouldn't be barked at. Guardian is one of the traits of a Boxer.

Do some research and I'm sure you'll want to find out more.
http://www.boxerworld.com
http://www.akc.org

Check them out. Hope this helps.

Sgt.K
 
German Shepherd.
I'll always have one. She's laying at my feet right now. Wouldn't trade her for anything... :)

Bulldozer, hope you find the breed that's right for you.
Good luck....

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...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...

[This message has been edited by foxfire (edited February 10, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by foxfire (edited February 10, 2000).]
 
Mk86fcc,

I'm still laughing!

For such a cute dog, I never would have dreamed that a Daschund was a badger hunter! From what I've heard, pound for pound the Badger is worse than a lion. I guess that's why they have short legs.

Bulldozer,

The Rhodesian Ridgeback is very expensive for show quality. As far as that goes, you might be able to afford a good electronic security system with an electric fence around the perimeter for the same $. What ever is left over, you can get a Mini-daschund as a backup alarm. ;) See, there's lots of ways to look at dogs. Some dogs make one of the finest alarms. Others make, well lets just say that they "cry wolf" too often....all night long.

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
 
Alright, we have got some info to work with !

First off, you can scratch the Fila of your list if you plan on taking it to work. It doesn't do well with strangers. I should also ask, how much do are you willing to spend ? I have to agree with some of the others, that many fine dogs are found at the pound. I am assuming that you are interested in a TOP quality guard dog which can cost quite a bit of money and time checking out breeders. Just like guns, you get what you pay for with guard dogs.

The reason I suggested American Bulldog, other than the fact that it is the most respected breed in street protection training today, is that it is easier to come by than most of the other protection breeds. Top quality ABs run from $600-$1000. Most Dogos, Filas, Presas, neos ect. will run in the $2000 range and will be difficult to locate. And since we're comparing, a schutzhound III or police quality Sheperd will run in $4000 to $8000 range. Don't expect to get a quality protection Shep or Malinois if your not paying that kind of money. The civilian protection guard dog market has changed drastically in the past 20 years, and the only reason the police use the shepard is its uniformity and liability.

The AB has a "prey" driven temperment. This means unlike defense driven sheps, they do not attack out of fear, but rather recognition of its prey. This type of behaviour generally means that the AB is quite social around other animals and friends until called upon to do its duty. Defense driven dogs have to be taught NOT to attack, generally because they are overprotective and mistrustful of strangers.
The bullbred AB is very similar to the Bullmastiff in its behavior, quite a character and great with kids. Not as stubborn though :) .

The AB is used more than any other dog for hunting Boar, hence its prey drive nature. If your not interested now in hunting with a dog, I gaurantee you will be when you get that AB :)

AB at work
airwebb.jpg



good starting point for AB
http://home.sol.no/~molossus/americanbulldog/americanbulldog.html
 
I myself am partial to Irish Wolfhounds (well we do have 9 adults right now and a litter on the way)... We have 5 kids, chickens, goats, cats, etc. and have NEVER had any of our wolfhounds attack any of them. We originally chose wolfhounds back when my oldest was 1 1/2 because we wanted a LARGE INTIMDATING LOOKING dog that was safe around kids... I had always had German Shepards when a kid but my wife is very afraid of the breed because of being attacked by one as a child. We went to the breeder and during discussion we heard her prize male gagging, looked over and my son had grabbed the dog's tongue and was hanging from it. Now this was a Show dog, not a family pet and in fact had not been around kids much, but wolfhounds (in my experience) consider kids as funny looking puppies and treat them accordingly. However do NOT threaten my wife or kids... wolfhounds are tallest breed, weigh from about 120 up through 200+ and are capable of running a deer down.. The ONLY way you could grab one of my kids out of my yard would require a LOT of gunfire as there is NO way you would be able to escape carrying my child. As for intimidating, the one time a sherrif deputy pulled into my drive (back before fence) he sat in car honking horn until we came out. I guess the fact that the dogs could look in the window of car without standing up on hind feet affected his decision...

The standard comment everyone makes upon first seeing a wolfhound in person is "That's not a DOG, that's a horse!"
 
Our canine friends are great, it's true,
so go ahead and start Part II.

Egads! Dennis is in my head! :eek:

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"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson
 
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