Grizzly Bear Attack
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OldLincoln
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Bear Spray vs Wasp Spray
Lots of stuff on handguns & bears. What I want to know is which spray is most effective. I read that wasp spray stings like fire and it doesn't just scare something away but punishes them for trying in the first place. But does it work on a big old nasty Grizzly? And just what does bear spray actually do to the bear, besides season his next meal?
Lots of stuff on handguns & bears. What I want to know is which spray is most effective. I read that wasp spray stings like fire and it doesn't just scare something away but punishes them for trying in the first place. But does it work on a big old nasty Grizzly? And just what does bear spray actually do to the bear, besides season his next meal?
An excellent brand of bear spray is Counter Assault. I know guides in Alaska that carry it and the spray is actually very very effective. Most of these guides carry Ruger and S&W revolvers in .44 magnum or larger. 45-70 lever actions and or 12 gauge shotguns loaded with slugs. When your talking about Grizzlies or coastal brown bears, bigger is better. Bears are solitary and if they can smell you or hear you, they'll avoid you. The reality is that in Alaska, moose kill more people than bear.
Food chain position
In 1654 Bishop Usher, in Ireland, calculated that the world was created at 9AM on October 23rd, 4004 BC. That means that as of this morning we have had 6013 years, 9 months, 7 days, and 22 hours (as of my time now) to work ourselves to the top of the food chain.
We have progressed through caves, to mud huts, to stone walls, to log cabins, and on to split level ranch style suburban houses with a 300hp SUV in the driveway.
Why then undo 6013 years, 9 months, 7 days, and 22 hours of progress by camping in the wilds with only a 6 mil thick canvas between us and a 42 toothed, 20 clawed, 500 pound mass of angry omnivore thereby putting ourselves down to notch 87 on the food chain?
The best defense against bears attacking sleeping campers are Best Western or Holiday Inn.
In 1654 Bishop Usher, in Ireland, calculated that the world was created at 9AM on October 23rd, 4004 BC. That means that as of this morning we have had 6013 years, 9 months, 7 days, and 22 hours (as of my time now) to work ourselves to the top of the food chain.
We have progressed through caves, to mud huts, to stone walls, to log cabins, and on to split level ranch style suburban houses with a 300hp SUV in the driveway.
Why then undo 6013 years, 9 months, 7 days, and 22 hours of progress by camping in the wilds with only a 6 mil thick canvas between us and a 42 toothed, 20 clawed, 500 pound mass of angry omnivore thereby putting ourselves down to notch 87 on the food chain?
The best defense against bears attacking sleeping campers are Best Western or Holiday Inn.
Whatever you can shoot well, and is reasonably powerful. We hear the rare stories about the super powered guns that didnt stop a bear right off, and are led to believe the bears are somehow endowed with supernatural powers. We also seem to hear a lot from folks that don't live anywhere near bears, have never likely seen one even in a zoo, about what it takes to kill one.
A guy was attacked last year in Wy by a sow grizzly (about 300 lbs) with 2 cubs. He killed her with a 41 mag Ruger SA with 210 gr factory loads. He got complete penetration with exits on the 2 hits he got. Killed her DRT.
Ralph _______? lived in northen BC in the first part of the 1900's He said in his book Crusoe of Lonesome Lake that he quit counting at 50 the grizzlies he killed, with a Winchester 94 carbine and a Remington 35 cal rifle. Not saying they'd be the best choice in weapons for bear killing, but they seemed to work, and not just being lucky once or twice. Just want to point out that shooting well is more important than a super powered gun.
I was talking with another guy that has had experience with grizzlies. I mentioned my 45-70. He said "It's a nice gun, but you don't really need anything that big". I asked what he used, he said "a 30-30, they aren't that hard to kill".
The attack in Mt near Yellowstone had 1 fatality and 2 injuries. They caught the bears, a 3-400 lb sow grizzly with 3 cubs. They had been feeding on the guy that was killed. It was confirmed by DNA. The sow was killed, the cubs will live in a zoo somewhere. Bear spray is fine stuff for many circumstances, but being IN a tent when trying to use it will seriously limit its usefulness.
FWIW, I generally carry a 44 Smith with medium to Keith level loads(slightly under factory level), or a Ruger SA in 45 Colt cal with 325 gr loads at moderate high vel, and a 348 Winchester w/ 250 gr loads, a 45-70 w/ 400 gr loads @ 1850 fps, or 30-06 w/ 180's. I'm not a bear slayer, nor do I portray one on TV.
A guy was attacked last year in Wy by a sow grizzly (about 300 lbs) with 2 cubs. He killed her with a 41 mag Ruger SA with 210 gr factory loads. He got complete penetration with exits on the 2 hits he got. Killed her DRT.
Ralph _______? lived in northen BC in the first part of the 1900's He said in his book Crusoe of Lonesome Lake that he quit counting at 50 the grizzlies he killed, with a Winchester 94 carbine and a Remington 35 cal rifle. Not saying they'd be the best choice in weapons for bear killing, but they seemed to work, and not just being lucky once or twice. Just want to point out that shooting well is more important than a super powered gun.
I was talking with another guy that has had experience with grizzlies. I mentioned my 45-70. He said "It's a nice gun, but you don't really need anything that big". I asked what he used, he said "a 30-30, they aren't that hard to kill".
The attack in Mt near Yellowstone had 1 fatality and 2 injuries. They caught the bears, a 3-400 lb sow grizzly with 3 cubs. They had been feeding on the guy that was killed. It was confirmed by DNA. The sow was killed, the cubs will live in a zoo somewhere. Bear spray is fine stuff for many circumstances, but being IN a tent when trying to use it will seriously limit its usefulness.
FWIW, I generally carry a 44 Smith with medium to Keith level loads(slightly under factory level), or a Ruger SA in 45 Colt cal with 325 gr loads at moderate high vel, and a 348 Winchester w/ 250 gr loads, a 45-70 w/ 400 gr loads @ 1850 fps, or 30-06 w/ 180's. I'm not a bear slayer, nor do I portray one on TV.
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RETG said:
You might not even have a chance to emit any smells.
Grizzly attacks three separate tents, injuring two and killing one.
Modern tents with floors are death bags in bear attacks. They don't protect you, nor do they allow you to escape with the connected floor. The other issue is that none of those attacked used electric fences around their camps. It was clearly posted as grizzly country in the news clips that I saw on the Montana attack this week.
The other issue is how no dogs alerted anyone that I saw in the reports. I know of folks that use dogs as the early warning system in camp although on the trail often times they bring the bear back to their masters. This is grizzly country in an area with a history of bear attacks, the last bling in 2008 with once again a sow grizzly with cubs.
The rangers said that the campers did everything correctly and they couldn't understand why the bear attacked. I am no bear expert, but is it really surprising knowing the unpredictable nature of a grizzly that they would see easy food before them, US. There are a lot of stories about the California grizzly before it was eliminated and how they terrorized the native indian population. The grizzly is an aggressive animal that makes its own rules. I do not in the least find it difficult to understand why it attacked the three people, I am surprised that the people just seemed to ignore the fact that they really were in griz country.
Keeping a fire going, having dogs for early warning, and keeping watch throughout the night is not an unreasonable thing to do especially with so many people in these camps. A little team work would have kept the man alive that died that night. It wasn't necessary.
The other issue is how no dogs alerted anyone that I saw in the reports. I know of folks that use dogs as the early warning system in camp although on the trail often times they bring the bear back to their masters. This is grizzly country in an area with a history of bear attacks, the last bling in 2008 with once again a sow grizzly with cubs.
The rangers said that the campers did everything correctly and they couldn't understand why the bear attacked. I am no bear expert, but is it really surprising knowing the unpredictable nature of a grizzly that they would see easy food before them, US. There are a lot of stories about the California grizzly before it was eliminated and how they terrorized the native indian population. The grizzly is an aggressive animal that makes its own rules. I do not in the least find it difficult to understand why it attacked the three people, I am surprised that the people just seemed to ignore the fact that they really were in griz country.
Keeping a fire going, having dogs for early warning, and keeping watch throughout the night is not an unreasonable thing to do especially with so many people in these camps. A little team work would have kept the man alive that died that night. It wasn't necessary.
TylerD45ACP
New member
Exactly guys. I always though 3 inch mag Brenneke slugs would be my primary for a bear maybe the last shot or two in the tube those Centurion rounds with the .69 caliber ball. My pistol would be a 1911 45ACP because thats my pistol and I love the 1911. However, like others have said thats when the bear is mauling me and I would be desperatley reaching for it to put under its chin and empty the mag. I might even carry a Delta Elite if I had one, the 10mm is mean. LOL to the COBRA there wouldn't be anything but bear soup.
From everything I have read from actual accounts and people with real knowledge of bears it seems spray is the best thing (wonder how that would work on a person in say a woman using it for SD situation, I am betting WELL) Not that I ever have a notion of putting myself in a bear vs me situation but if I was going to such a place some spray and my 12 gauge with Helux slugs would probably be the tools. I had a post here not long ago about the effectivness of a 12g and the conclusion was a 12g with slugs at 50 feet or so will kill about anything walking, swimming or flying short of stuff made of steel running on jet fuel. I wouldnt mind seeing (I understand the legal issues) a bear/ large game slug using some kind of steel core to aid in punching through hide and bone.
On a side note I was interested in picking up a SUBU super shorty 12 gauge wich is a pump action with a fold down handle on the pump and in total about 16 inches long. That with a couple slugs in it may be something easy to carry in the wild and bring to "bear" on an animal although having your arm in a sling with a busted wrist afterwards may not be so pleasant.
On a side note I was interested in picking up a SUBU super shorty 12 gauge wich is a pump action with a fold down handle on the pump and in total about 16 inches long. That with a couple slugs in it may be something easy to carry in the wild and bring to "bear" on an animal although having your arm in a sling with a busted wrist afterwards may not be so pleasant.
Mike Irwin
Staff
As someone else said, there have been a LOT of bear threads lately.
If the answers can't be found in one of those, I don't think it can be found.
Closed as repetitive, and far too silly for quite a few of you.
If the answers can't be found in one of those, I don't think it can be found.
Closed as repetitive, and far too silly for quite a few of you.
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