Greatest Rifle Designers of all time?
- Thread starter Badger Arms
- Start date
Flaim,
You wrote:
"Mad Dog you are making posts and topics just to piss people off. Good way to get banned real quick in most places."
This ain't "most places".
This is a place where we can say what we mean and mean what we say, thanks to the Overlords of TFL.
That good old "First Amendment" thing.
If what I say/write "pisses you off", all I can say is, "Gee whiz and golly gosh! I am truly sorry... that you are so thin skinned. I will surely cry myself to sleep tonight over this one."
They are the facts as I see them.
Yours most sincerely,
Mad Dog
You wrote:
"Mad Dog you are making posts and topics just to piss people off. Good way to get banned real quick in most places."
This ain't "most places".
This is a place where we can say what we mean and mean what we say, thanks to the Overlords of TFL.
That good old "First Amendment" thing.
If what I say/write "pisses you off", all I can say is, "Gee whiz and golly gosh! I am truly sorry... that you are so thin skinned. I will surely cry myself to sleep tonight over this one."
They are the facts as I see them.
Yours most sincerely,
Mad Dog
Badger Arms
New member
Kalashnikov, like Glock and Makarov, merely simplified proven Designs. With the Glock, there was more involved and the design is innovative as well. Stoner was truly gifted in design but his design wasn't mature before it was fielded.
I hate to say that the Emperor has no Clothes, but He doesn't. Kalashnikov deserves as much credit for the exquisite refinement of the MP44/StG44 into the AK-47 as is due, but the idea was somebody elses.
Simply look at the MP-44 and and you'll see the AK is a virtual copy. Even the Front Sight block is a virtual copy. Elements of the MP44 are present in the FAL, AK-47, and G-3.
I hate to say that the Emperor has no Clothes, but He doesn't. Kalashnikov deserves as much credit for the exquisite refinement of the MP44/StG44 into the AK-47 as is due, but the idea was somebody elses.
Simply look at the MP-44 and and you'll see the AK is a virtual copy. Even the Front Sight block is a virtual copy. Elements of the MP44 are present in the FAL, AK-47, and G-3.
cuerno de chivo
Moderator
Mauser
Kalishnikov
Kalishnikov
E. Wesson (For what's now known as the "Henry Rifle" which paved the way for all the lever guns of the last 125 years or so.)
Messer. Lebel
Der Mausers
JMB
David M. Williams
Karl Gustav
Gene Stoner (I don't care what anyone says, he work was both innovative and significant.)
Komrad Kalashnikov gets no vote, he only designed one rife, everything else was adaptation, and that one design (as someone above already said) was a blatant rip-off and "dumbing down" of a superior design.
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Your mind is your primary weapon.
USE IT!
Messer. Lebel
Der Mausers
JMB
David M. Williams
Karl Gustav
Gene Stoner (I don't care what anyone says, he work was both innovative and significant.)
Komrad Kalashnikov gets no vote, he only designed one rife, everything else was adaptation, and that one design (as someone above already said) was a blatant rip-off and "dumbing down" of a superior design.
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Your mind is your primary weapon.
USE IT!
Saint Gene's rifle failed in Vietnam because the Govt used the wrong type of powder initially and there were not enough cleaning kits nor the inclination amongst most GIs to clean anyway.
If you put diesel in a gas car and never change the oil, what do you expect to happen?
If you put diesel in a gas car and never change the oil, what do you expect to happen?
Badger Arms
New member
I'll have to agree with SA85 here. What's a cleaning kit? Why should a grunt have to spend an hour a day cleaning his Stoner miracle gun when he can have a gun that will go bang cheaper in the AR-18, Galil, AK-47, HK36, Valmet, Stoner 63, etc? These guns don't need the same level of care to go bang either. Me, I'd carry the Valmet or Galil into battle. Heck, I'd carry an FAL almost anywhere.
The problem the US Military has gotten ourselves into is that we are relying on an inherintly unreliable weapon. Fire 1000 rounds over the course of a realistic field exercise with any weapon and you get a better idea of how reliable that weapon is. To keep the Black Rifle going requires TLC. Don't flame me with your "Yeah, but my M-16 never... blah, blah, blah." You are not Joe Sixpack Grunt or you wouldn't be on this board. For the Rank-and-File Rocket Scientist who can't pass the ASVAB, the M-16 is a hopelessly complex system that requires more cleaning than Michael Jackson's Toilet.
So there. Now after all that, I'll say I own both an AR-15 and AR-10 and love them. I do know how to clean them and am not planning on going out to the field any time soon.
The problem the US Military has gotten ourselves into is that we are relying on an inherintly unreliable weapon. Fire 1000 rounds over the course of a realistic field exercise with any weapon and you get a better idea of how reliable that weapon is. To keep the Black Rifle going requires TLC. Don't flame me with your "Yeah, but my M-16 never... blah, blah, blah." You are not Joe Sixpack Grunt or you wouldn't be on this board. For the Rank-and-File Rocket Scientist who can't pass the ASVAB, the M-16 is a hopelessly complex system that requires more cleaning than Michael Jackson's Toilet.
So there. Now after all that, I'll say I own both an AR-15 and AR-10 and love them. I do know how to clean them and am not planning on going out to the field any time soon.
JMB was hands down the greatest firearms designer since the chinaman who invented gunpowder. No if's and's or but's. Almost every pistol uses his ideas. Many rifles too. The man was pure genious, and deserves his place on the top of the heap.
I don't like the AR that much. It was too little gun, and was introduced poorly. You don't test new equipment in Combat, you test it before combat. That being said, it is an accurate little sucker, of course few would dispute its accuracy.
I don't like the AR that much. It was too little gun, and was introduced poorly. You don't test new equipment in Combat, you test it before combat. That being said, it is an accurate little sucker, of course few would dispute its accuracy.
Browning is on the top of the heap for self loading handguns and recoil-operated self-loading shotguns.
But number 1 on the list for rifles is Mauser.
Many of Browning's rifle patents were improvements on previous designs from Spencer, Henry, et al. His machine gun developments owe a lot to Maxim. Nothing wrong with that because that's how progress occurs.
And as for the supremacy of Mauser, it is worth noting that for many years the rifles marketed under Browning's name were Mauser actions.
I know I may be seen to be spitting on someone's flag but as great as Browning was, he was not great in all things.
But number 1 on the list for rifles is Mauser.
Many of Browning's rifle patents were improvements on previous designs from Spencer, Henry, et al. His machine gun developments owe a lot to Maxim. Nothing wrong with that because that's how progress occurs.
And as for the supremacy of Mauser, it is worth noting that for many years the rifles marketed under Browning's name were Mauser actions.
I know I may be seen to be spitting on someone's flag but as great as Browning was, he was not great in all things.
Yep, there are some who like bolt guns, but not me. I agree the 98 Mauser is pretty close to perfect but the bolt action, unless you are talking African calibers is not competitive with an autoloader, unless your name is Jeff Cooper. 
If I really wanted a bolt gun I would get a Steyr Mannlicher by the way, much lighter and pretty damn accurate. I had one that would drive tacks in 243 but the bolt action was not my cup o' tea.
Browning did not waste his time with old tech. He built self actuating firearms, just like the best ones today.
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o I raised my hand to eye level, like pointing a finger, and fired. Wild Bill Hickok
If I really wanted a bolt gun I would get a Steyr Mannlicher by the way, much lighter and pretty damn accurate. I had one that would drive tacks in 243 but the bolt action was not my cup o' tea.
Browning did not waste his time with old tech. He built self actuating firearms, just like the best ones today.
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o I raised my hand to eye level, like pointing a finger, and fired. Wild Bill Hickok
J.M. Browning ALSO designed a lot of manually cycled weapons, FYI.
The Winchester model 97 pump shotgun, several lever action guns, other pump and over under shotguns, as well as some nifty falling block single shots.
When he invented them, they were "new tech".
He did move with the times though, and did create other designs in Semi and Full auto versions.
[This message has been edited by MAD DOG (edited November 11, 2000).]
The Winchester model 97 pump shotgun, several lever action guns, other pump and over under shotguns, as well as some nifty falling block single shots.
When he invented them, they were "new tech".
He did move with the times though, and did create other designs in Semi and Full auto versions.
[This message has been edited by MAD DOG (edited November 11, 2000).]