Gotta love the Swiss Government

[Musketeer]

Wonder what kind of rifles they get to keep home. Can you imagine getting to bring home an M16 when you join the national guard?

After they muster out they may keep what they were issued. If it were select fire (Full & Semi Auto) the full auto is deactivated after leaving the service. The Swiss put very little emphasis on full auto anyway, very much favouring AIMED fire.

I have been to Switzerland several times for work. Our factory there has an annual rifle shoot where everyone shows up with whatever they were issued. You will see everything back to old K-31s on the line.

In order to push through any real gun legislation there will have to be a national referendum. Most Swiss votes go that way. It means that very little gets done legislatively over there since you cannot simply sway some politicians, you must convince 51%+ of the nation. They need to remain vigilant on the issue of gun grabbers but are not nearly as threatened as we are.

Remember, this is the nation that flat out refused to join the EU. They also forbid building on farmland. The logic is that if Europe decides to go mad again they can close their borders, rip up the vinyards and plant potatos to feed the nation like in WWI and WWII. Te mountains are, as my Swiss counterpart told me, "Like Cheese." He meant there are tunnels and caves through out them and they are full of weapons, artillery, ammunition, tanks, you name it. They love trade as much or more than the next guy but still want to be able to tell the rest of the world to pound sand if needed.

As for this old gentleman's rifle, contact the family. They for the most part have a great sense of family history there. If you have their family member's gun it is not because the government took it from him, it is because he turned it in. Perhaps he was issued something newer, perhaps he jsut no longer wanted it, but it was not take from him.

Just on my last trip there in April I was waiting for my ride in the early morning air in Arburg. The town was just waking up and what comes walking across the old coverred bridge right into town and towards the gun shop, an older gentleman, possibly in his 80s, with his old issue K-31, still obviously maintained, slung over his shoulder. Nobody batted an eye.

 

[rick_reno]

I lived in Switzerland for two years - I assure you I had no love affair with the Swiss Government. For example, when moving in Switzerland everyone reports first to the kreis (district) where they're living in and then heads over to the new police station for the kreis you're moving to. This has to be done prior to the move. Papers are stamped, records are moved. They do a great job of keeping track of people. Also, once a month while riding my bike to work I - and everyone else - was stopped by a kid with a machine pistol hung around his neck and had our papers checked. Forget your papers and you get a ride to the police station. He'd also check my bike license (yes, bikes need a license - along with radios and TVs), bell and brakes. The radio/TV police are guys who apparently go door to door checking your license. They only visited once while I was living there.
On the positve side - there is no crime. I never locked my bike, or my apartment door. People don't steal stuff. The Swiss have no love affair with their rifles, it's an object they associate with the Army - something many of them would rather not do. They do have a lot of shooting ranges and the men I knew were required to qualify once a year with their rifle - the ammo they used they had to buy (the ammo the Army gave them was inspected yearly and had better not be opened). Again, the ones I knew didn't like having to buy their own ammo.

 

[Musketeer]

Rick has a point. To an American they are very much more of a "Police State" than we are used to. At the same time they have a fat stronger independent streak than the rest of Europe. They do keep an eye on those who live there but are not citizens. You could be born there but that does not make you a citizen unless your parents were. I have a friend born and raised there who still is on a German passport at age 35.

There is also a difference between the German and french speaking sections when it comes to shooting and the military. The issue Swiss Army Knife for enlisted men is not red, it is brushed Aluminum with dimlpes. It also has no corkscrew. My German Swiss friends call it the Frenchmens' Knife. They say the only way they could get the French Swiss to do any work in the military was to remove the corkscrew...

 

[Mike Irwin]

"No, Mike, you're right. It wasn't a B-12..."

Too bad. Nifty aircraft, and a pivotal one in the history of the US Air Force.

"B-26"

Ah, the Baltimore Whore... No visible means of support.

The B-26 had, by far, the highest wing loading of any US aircraft of the time. Helped give it great performance, it also made the B-26A one hell of a dangerous aircraft for new pilots, or even experienced ones who let their guard down.

The B-26B, the most common, had a larger wing that helped make it a bit more forgiving, but it was still apparently an SOB to fly.

 

[LSU12ga]

swiss citizenship

is frightingly hard to obtian. I soppose this is a great way to remain neutral in a conflict, control immigration and your work force. I don't much care for the direction this counrty has been heading in the past few years, and if things contiune like they are currently switzerland is where i plan to go after i finish my schooling.


Keep the rifle, send the tag and a photo of the rifle. Send a nice letter about how its a joy to shoot and maybe a shot biography of you and your family with some pictures of where you live.

 

[JoshB]

I have several veterans in my family from every war our country has been in since the civil war. I would love hearing from anyone who had any kind of info about them. I'm proud of my heritage and what they did for our country. I definately wouldn't pass up a chance to learn more about them.

 

[Glockamolie]

Another nod to send the letter and a picture.

 

[azurefly]

Learning so much in this thread...
the problem is, some paint a rosy picture of Switzerland, and then others come in and provide information that is not nearly so flattering about the place. Now, unless the latter group are just making stuff up... maybe it's not so rosy over there.

Bluefly: You have obviously never been to Der Schweitz if you think that they are all freedom-hating usurpers of firearms rights. You could not be more wrong about this fine nation's history with and attitudes about firearms.

Are you sure? I'm still trying to distill all the info being thrown at me in this thread.

And I remember clipping an article back a year or more ago, with the headline, "Swiss Rethinking Firearms Laws as 14 are Shot to Death." It was very reminiscent of the reactions that followed Dunblane and Port Arthur. I'm not sure if the anti-gun sentiment that came after this massacre went anywhere, though.


Here is a link to an article about this very subject.



-azurefly

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I was stationed in Germany for 8 years and got the opportunity to go to Switzerland, it is a beautiful country and nothing about that country even speaks about a police state. I had the opportunity to learn German and spoke German all over the place both in Germany and Switzerland, again no police state. Funny thing was every time I crossed the border into Germany I felt like was leaving a country where I truly belonged. In Switzerland it takes eight years for a bill to become a law, hows that for politics? In our country...? Shooting the Swiss K31 is a hoot. I need diopter sights and I am going to make my own left hand bolt adapter.

 

[Musketeer]

Police state is a mentality. Switzerland is not China but it is also not America. The attitutde there is more of "If I haven't been told yes I need to get permission" as opposed to the old American view of "If I haven't been told no the answer is yes." The people also naturally confrom to the rules that are laid out for them, there is not alot of "Challenging Authority" that goes on there. The concept of "Begging forgivenes rather than asking permission" does not exist there.

They do value their independence from the rest of Europe greatly. There are varying views across the country, most notibly being between the French and German sections, although there is also an Italian section whose stance I have no idea about. Generally the French side is more open to outside influences, wants closer ties to the rest of Europe, and often looks at their German Swiss countrymen as somewhat provincial and backward. The German Swiss on the other hand look at the French Swiss as slightly stuck up and not quite focused enough on their own country first. These are GENERALIZATIONS. I am certain there are many peolpe who do not fall into these categories. I have spent time in each section and work with peolpe from both regions regularly.

Passing laws does take a long time and anything major is going to require a national referendum. Big changes do not happen easily or often. They have "intellectual elite" like we do who make all sorts of propostitions. Those are what we hear about in the USA when the American media chooses to report about proposed Swiss gun law changes. The US media doe snot go on to report how resoundingly such proposals fail.

Switzerland has good points and bad points. Of European nations it is the one I would most be willing to live in. They are able to maintain their system in a large part by controlling immigration and having a population whose culture is focused on working and pulling your own weight. That is why they can have the social programs they do, they are not being used as ways of life by large segments of the society. If they saw their systems abused as American ones are I am certain you would see some major outcry.

Did anybody here know that you cannot carry a pocket knife that can be openned with one hand in Switzerland. I thought that very funny. I was able to buy several at a local gun store but was specifically told you could not carry one. You also need a special permit to carry a handgun, although I saw several small 2" 38s in the display cases.

At the same time I still far prefer the USA to Switzerland.

 

[Samurai]

I don't think you're supposed to carry one in Tennessee, although I think the statute limits the bans to knives having some "mechanism" for opening with one hand, i.e. a switchblade or stiletto.

... but that's a thread hijack... No more of that, now!

Write the letter. It'll be fun.

S.

 

[azurefly]

Passing laws does take a long time and anything major is going to require a national referendum. Big changes do not happen easily or often. They have "intellectual elite" like we do who make all sorts of propostitions. Those are what we hear about in the USA when the American media chooses to report about proposed Swiss gun law changes. The US media does not go on to report how resoundingly such proposals fail.

That is very good to read. It's hard to know, of course, exactly when we are being given a horribly incomplete version of a development in another country. And that's not unique to the U.S., of course. I mean, I'm sure that Swiss newspapers don't necessarily give the Swiss a full picture of U.S. goings-on; and then there are places like China, Cuba, Saudi Arabia...

Switzerland has good points and bad points. Of European nations it is the one I would most be willing to live in. They are able to maintain their system in a large part by controlling immigration and having a population whose culture is focused on working and pulling your own weight.

In other words (to me), Switzerland's success and lifestyle are testament that homogenous cultures generally enjoy FAR more peace than cultures that allow unworkable levels of social/cultural mixing via relatively unrestrained immigration.

Can anyone really argue in good faith that many of the problems that the U.S., England, France, etc. are experiencing are not inextricably tied to immigration? It's not like it's even being kept quiet anymore. I've read news article after article about how immigration of Africans and/or muslims to France is being held responsible for the intercultural strife going on there. And the "homegrown" islamic terror cells in England are also blamed on the cysts of islamic immigrants that have stuck in areas there.

Switzerland simply doesn't let that happen -- that's my understanding. And their society is much safer and much better off for it.

Aren't we in the U.S. arguing more and more against the idea of allowing the U.S. to become whatever outsiders who move here wish to try to make it into?

That is why they can have the social programs they do, they are not being used as ways of life by large segments of the society. If they saw their systems abused as American ones are I am certain you would see some major outcry.

Well, WE are seeing our systems abused, and for some reason we all have been knuckling under for decades to leftists who see nothing wrong with it.

Did anybody here know that you cannot carry a pocket knife that can be openned with one hand in Switzerland. I thought that very funny. I was able to buy several at a local gun store but was specifically told you could not carry one. You also need a special permit to carry a handgun, although I saw several small 2" 38s in the display cases. At the same time I still far prefer the USA to Switzerland.

I have major disdain for both of the laws you just mentioned, especially the knife one, which makes absolutely zero sense to me. Who cares about whether a knife can be opened with one hand or not? The "danger" from a knife does not come from how it is opened, or even how quickly, but from the way the knife is used, and possibly how large it is.

I suppose some would say, "What's the need for carrying a gun in a country that's so safe?" but I say, "Bad things can happen even in places where their incidence is not common. What would you do then?"


-azurefly