Got Mossberg 500 in 12 guage for HD. Need advice on the best mods...

[Raccoon Ricky]

Obviously, the tactical fore end light has the advantage in being able to momentarily to turn it on or off without both hands leaving the firearm. And that's a useful thing, certainly. That's a great deal if I surprise my assailant, flash'em with the light and bang!

That's a cool story bro.

Realistically, on your home defence gun, you're going to be grabbing it because you think someone has broken into your house, or is in the process of breaking into your house. YOU ARE AT THE DISADVANTAGE HERE. You have no idea who is invading your house, how many there are, what they are armed with or why they are doing this. Without knowing this, you are going to leave a "safe" place(insomuch as you know there are no hostiles in there), to venture into an uncertain and potentially life threatening environment with the intention of identifying the intruders, deciding if it's a lethal use of force situation, engage and win? Phew. Man, that's a pretty big list of intangibles to go sling lead around.

I mean, first, what do you have to defend? Like what are you willing to lose? My life? No. My Gun? No. My loved Ones? No. My dogs? Maybe. My Computer? Sure. My Television? Sure. My car? Sure! I have lived without those things, I will get by without them again for a while until I replace them. So for me, I've got myself and my mom to worry about, and we live in a duplex about a half mile from the police station. Judging from the time it took for them to respond to a drunken dude crashing on new years in front of our place, I figure that the police will probably be there within 5 to 10 minutes.

So that's what I HAVE to defend. Fortunately, our rooms share a hallway, with the bathroom in between our rooms, and the hallway opening up into the other half of the house, with one room for kitchen, dining room and living room. From the door into that area, I figure it's about 3-4yds to the front door, or maybe 5-6 yards to the back door.

I can see my front door from my bedroom door. My bedroom is typically the darkest, so I would be adjusting from lower light to brighter light, and that's maybe a 4-5 yd shot. If the front door was closed, you'd be able to get in the corner and I would be blind. If I advance to the door into the living room, I can cover most of the house, though I don't like that idea.

But really, my home defense plan stops essentially at my bedroom door. From there I can cover the front door(the backdoor opens into a fenced in yard, neighboring yards have dogs), and call the cops. Sit tight and wait for the cavalry to roll up. They can't get to my momma, they can't get to me.

Well, they could shoot through the walls. That's a a bummer. But if I've got a bunch of guys with pistols in my kitchen who decide to shoot through the walls? Well, I'm screwed either way.

So, I don't see a tactical need for a flash light on my mossy.

Now, that's not the only time I ever would use my mossy. I occasionally watch property for people who are out of town for a while. Some of these people have been the victims of armed robbery and theft of their possessions, or had their chickens killed or gone missing, etc. They like someone to check out the place, let the dogs in and out(if they didn't take them), and just generally keep an eye on things.

Now, depending on the property, that might mean I wake up in the middle of the night to chickens and goats going crazy, maybe some kind of crashing noise, and I can't just sit in the house while a raccoon is killing chickens or just causing a problem. And if someone's out there in the workshop stealing the table saw and drill press, I'm going to be in trouble! So, I gotta go outside.

There, a headlamp is awesome. The first thing I wanna do is alert any thing to my presence. The presence of someone is often enough to get someone to leave. I've come outside before to hear a car going out the end of the drive way. But when I'm looking around the property at night, having a hands free light that I can use is just the bees knees. It also helps to spot wild animals and drive them off, which works for me when I have to watch the goats.

It's also cost effective. A $20 headlamp is something that is useful for a whole lot of things other than going on the side of your gun. So if you never use it for a home defense scenario, it's still a solid use of money. A $20 dollar taclight is a piece of crap that's going to fall apart after prolonged use. I'd rather have a light I know works, than a light that might not. And if you drop real money for a nice light? For starting with a shotgun? Ehhh, you'd probably be better served spending that on instruction and/or ammunition and range time.

If you are certain you have a real need for a light, then get a good one, and keep it on the gun when you shoot. It's going to change the balance of your gun, it's going to change the way you shoot. I have always believed that the adage of Bruce Lee "train like you fight, because you fight how you train" is central for preparing for anything.

But I don't think it's really a big deal.

Also, on the target issue? Now, that's really a bit of a non issue. If you have your shotgun shouldered so you can get cheek weld and use sighted fire, that light's gonna be close to your face regardless. Staring at a bright light is disorientating(and you can get pretty bright lights for pretty cheap), which could have an effect on whether they hit me or not. But if they shoot center of the light, and put those rounds in a 4" circle at 5 yds, I'm probably dead regardless of whether they hit my brain pan, my lower face or my throat. Enough rounds, and that's going to probably incapacitate me. I better shoot before he can shoot. Maybe the light can give me that advantage?

TL; DR; Cheap lights are cheap, make sure you need a light before you put money on a light.

 

[Gunfixr]

Well, in case anyone is wondering, I didn't point my gun at my kid. He looked like a rather small adult, and so far I hadn't seen where the house had been breached. Plus, he was in the middle of the room, not stealing anything or something like that. So, the gun was off to one side, using ambient light.
Even if you used ambient light in this instance, and it was a bad guy, they would immediately turn in your direction, so just swing the light into their face as they look at it. They'd still be blinded, but I'd move as they would have had a momentary side glance at where you were before you blinded them.
As for a headlamp to check bumps in the night, you might as well just yell at them from bed to let them know you are coming.

 

[Raccoon Ricky]

Look, I don't care how you resolve your use of force issues, but if you do have a shoot, for godsake, don't tell the cops that you were slinking through the house like Jason Bourne and bushwhacked the guy as he was headed for the door. That's grounds for First Degree Murder. Holy heck, save yourself some time in the courtroom(I don't know about ya'll, but while I welcome days off from work, I would rather be at work than in the courtroom).

CYA and tell them you shouted for the intruders to get the eff out of your house, that you are armed and the cops are on their way. Then if you bushwack the guy, you can say that it was dark and it looked like he was going for a gun or a knife.

But don't tell them that you snuck through the house like a tactical ninja, light off, using the low levels of ambient light to navigate, then when you saw the guy, you flashed him and popped him after identifying him. One of those stories makes you sound like a C3(Concerned, Caring, Citizen) while the other sounds like something a freakin' pyschopath is going to say.

Matter fact, yeah, I'm against the Tactical light. Take the hundred bucks you were gonna drop on the taclight, and go take a course on defensive shotgunning, go talk to a lawyer and get up to date on what defines a justifiable, righteous shoot. That will see you in better stead 9 times out of 10 than that stupid light or an optic, or a laser, or whatever performance ammo you bought.

But don't discount the verbal warning and order to leave the premises. It carries weight.

 

[Dreaming100Straight]

I will make a note to consult a lawyer, but what makes you think you have a duty to place yourself or others in greater danger by alerting an intruder?

And no, I don't have a cheap $20 weapons light. Searching outside your home is simply not the same thing as typical home defense situation INSIDE YOUR HOME. I am the last person to advocate room clearing by a homeowner until they are pretty well convinced they were falsely alarmed.

OUTSIDE the home and about the curtilage is not something I have thought of, since it isn't something that concerns me. Still, I don't like the idea of having a light on your head. I suggest you get with a good tactical trainer.

 

[Gunfixr]

Until very recently, I had one of the children at a distance from my bedroom in the house, on another floor.
While I agree that hunting people, even if they are stealing the TV won't go over well in court, sorry but I'm not leaving a daughter at the other end of the house hoping the bad guys don't find her while I hide in the bedroom.
So, I'm not hunting bad guys, I'm going to get my child.
Well, until a couple weeks ago, now, I only have to go to the door to watch mine and her doors.
However, another scenario is getting up to a strange noise. Sometimes you aren't sure one way or another if someone is in the house.
So, go and look, or call the police and hide, and have them come break the door down to check and maybe find nothing?

 

[Raccoon Ricky]

First, I'd like to apologize if anything I say comes off harsh. I have a bit of a heavy-handed internet voice. I don't mean to give offense, but I try to talk plainly, and sometimes I come off rather wrong!

I will make a note to consult a lawyer, but what makes you think you have a duty to place yourself or others in greater danger by alerting an intruder?

Please consult a lawyer, or make sure you have a relevant copy of your state's Firearms Laws AND any self-defense laws. It's very important information. When me and my younger brother got our luxury apartment a few years ago(we wanted to see what living the "high life" was, so we did it for a year and a half. Fun, but not worth the cost), or Nana, being a lawyer, bought us a copy of NCs firearms laws, which we kept as coffee table book for a while, then filed it onto the shelf. At various home functions where Nana would entertain colleagues(lawyers and judges), we got chances to talk to local Judges and Lawyers, about this very subject.

Legally there is no duty to retreat, nor to inform someone of your presence. However, you do need to have a reasonable reason to suspect you are in danger. Note, citing the FBI's conclusion that a man with a knife is a lethal threat within 21 feet is a good basis for Self Defense. Now, that gives you a LOT of wiggle room in NC, especially since we got rid of our pesky "duty to retreat" bullcrap we used to have.

But here's the thing. Say you beat the homocide charge with a self defense plea, because it was a righteous shoot in the eyes of the law. The sheriff pats you on the back, says "I wouldn't have done any differently", and everything is awesome. Well, let's say a few months down the line, the baby momma of the crackhead who broke in your house decides to file suit against you in civil court for wrongful death, or intentional malfeasance, or whatever.

Announcing your presence and issuing an ultimatum to leave your domicile carries a good bit of weight. Say your intruder wasn't alone, and his buddy gave up after you repainted your foyer with his partner's brains. If his partner testifies that you blinded the perp with the shotgun, that he raised his hands to cover his face, he wasn't armed, and you shot him? You might be facing a civil case.

You're going to have to pay for a lawyer(Don't represent yourself. It's bad. Even if you are a lawyer, get another lawyer.), you're going to take time off work, you're going to be on the news, etc. Take Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin: even if you believe Zimmerman had a righteous shoot, do you really want to become an international spectacle like he did? Are you ready for that, in your life? Even if you win, you gotta pay your lawyer, you gotta deal with the media attention, etc. Is that worth it?

And then there's the real world issue that people don't like committing crimes if they think they will get caught. This is the reason why more police actually does have an positive impact(i.e. causing a decline) on crime rates: people don't like doing bad stuff if they think they are gonna get caught. Do kids do bad things when you're watching them? Nope, they wait until they are unsupervised to do stupid, bad things. So sometimes, just turning on a flash light, yelling you have a gun and they need to get the eff out of your apartment, sometimes it actually works. Now, if it doesn't, you don't wanna be the idiot with just a flash light, but I've seen people avoid getting jumped by faking that they had a pistol. I've faked that I had a pistol while being trailed at night on the way to the store, that time it didn't work. I got mugged.

But the question is... Is it worth it? Where is the line you are willing to draw. Me, I'm not willing to risk my life over a big screen teevee I got for free, or a $500 desktop from walmart. It's not worth it. I can get that replaced. I can't replace my momma, I can't replace me. Each person is going to have to make those decisions for themselves. That's a big thing to think over, and I wish more people did it before grabbing a shotty and putting it in their closet and thinking they've got it covered.

And no, I don't have a cheap $20 weapons light. Searching outside your home is simply not the same thing as typical home defense situation INSIDE YOUR HOME. I am the last person to advocate room clearing by a homeowner until they are pretty well convinced they were falsely alarmed.

I didn't mean to say that YOU had a $20 light, but I've seen reams of folks who will buy cheap, crappy things to put on weapons, but don't have a real solid plan, or any training, or any real thought put into it. And for many a beginner, I think the money spent on a quality taclite or optic is better spent on either instruction, or range-time. I think a taclite or optics is probably something that is a lower-priority.

OUTSIDE the home and about the curtilage is not something I have thought of, since it isn't something that concerns me. Still, I don't like the idea of having a light on your head. I suggest you get with a good tactical trainer.

See, it's one of those times when everyone's tactical shotgun needs might not match up. I'm often helping in woodshops or around the farm or something, and some of those people have had previous armed robberies, thefts or groups of armed men causing disturbances that keeping a firearm nearby is a sound, practical matter. I don't have a CCW yet, so I don't carry a pistol, though I have access to several. I do have a shotgun, so I can keep it in the shop with us, and we're set up nicely if some jerks show up.

But it is an option, and not a bad one to a tactical light mounted on your gun. It's hands free, and it has the advantage of working whether I've got my pump gun, or I pick up the property owner's 9mm and need to use it. It lasts longer, and it's just a practical option to have. I think it's like a first aid kit, and everyone should have one.

And yeah, the trainer thing is coming up. You know how this goes, Valentines is right around the corner, I'd like to get my CCW, the brakes need fixing, I'd like to get some buckshot and slug molds, etc. There are some good courses around here, I've talked to a few of the instructors and they seem like some good, smart folks. But, priorities. I'll be taking a defensive shotgun course BEFORE I get a tac light, I know that much.

Until then, I'll settle with several sergeants with multiple combat tours to the sandbox and the documentation to back up their stories. Great guys, I wish I'd kept my nose clean and been over there with them. But, well, I was a young punk who wanted to sell dope and pretend to be a thug. Damn, I was dumb. Maybe I'm not smarter now, but I feel a bit smarter than I used to be.

Until very recently, I had one of the children at a distance from my bedroom in the house, on another floor.
While I agree that hunting people, even if they are stealing the TV won't go over well in court, sorry but I'm not leaving a daughter at the other end of the house hoping the bad guys don't find her while I hide in the bedroom.
So, I'm not hunting bad guys, I'm going to get my child.
Well, until a couple weeks ago, now, I only have to go to the door to watch mine and her doors.

Yeah, and in this case, I think you have a real tactical need for a light. I wouldn't leave my daughter or Son, or Spouse, or sibling to fend for themselves. Even if my brother has an AK and a few thousand rounds, I'd rather have him behind me watching my back, then holed up in his room on the other side of the house.

However, another scenario is getting up to a strange noise. Sometimes you aren't sure one way or another if someone is in the house.
So, go and look, or call the police and hide, and have them come break the door down to check and maybe find nothing?

Well, in my case, any strange noises(me setting my phone down too loud) triggers our corp of Elite Attack Chihuahuas to set up such a racket you can hear them from across the street. And the Pit bull, she doesn't bark. But she does protect her pack. So, if it's nothing, then the pitbull isn't going to be making noises. If it's un hombre de malo? She's going to be tearing him apart, and I will know it's a violent encounter.

Each house is different. Some houses have floors so old you can't walk to the bathroom without waking the dead. You're going to have to decide if a tactical light is necessary for you, and how your defensive plan is going to work. If you don't have dogs, then that is different.