Got an idea for a "survival" rifle - tell me what you think

F

Futo Inu

New member
This idea actually came to me in a dream the night before last - actually it's no big breakthrough or anything like that - and I'm positive it's been thought of before...BUT I haven't seen it and think it's pretty good if you are actually surviving in the wilderness or backpacking long distances (such as the Appalachian trail), and minimal weight is of the utmost importance.

Basically, all it is - is a combo rifle and shotgun and shovel and axe. Take something like the Springfield M6 Scout or Savage combo (which is all-stainless single-shot .410 bore and .22lr or .22 hornet), give it a little more oomph but not much more ammo weight (I'm thinking .22 hornet or .223Rem, and 20 guage). THEN, put a strong, retractable axe blade which protrudes from the underside or top of the stock, and a strong retractable shovel blade from the end of the stock, with an appropriate short perpendicular "edge" near the stock's lower front for "foot-pushing" the shovel, which I suppose can double as the pistol grip portion of the stock. Extending EITHER accessory will engage a safety similar to a mag-disconnect safety until the accessory is once again retracted. Then of course you use the gun's barrel as a handle for the utilities, which saves weight in the pack. So, it's already been done, right? BTW, does anyone actually go on extended wilderness packs anymore, hunting trips or otherwise?

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited November 11, 1999).]
 
Just a thought, but I would not want to be using a gun barrel for anything but the purpose it was built for.
That is a handy idea though.
 
LOL, Gale. Well, it's not a McMillan tack-driver. I guess the whole thread might as well be removed, since the foremost authority on the site has officialy poo-pood the idea. :( :) C'mon, it's a limited purpose item for the extremely weight-conscious back-packer who doesn't need MOA accuracy (i.e. subsistence game is readily available with short-range headshots, so it doesn't matter if the barrel is perfect). And tell me honestly when you need more than one shot, or one shot each from each (rifle & shotgun) in rapid succession in a widerness survival scenario? Everything under the sun has been done in terms of actions, barrels, stocks, & optics - it's pretty hard to come up with something new. This is an economically-priced break-down backpack rifle, not a high-end precision tool.

BTW, notwithstanding the automatic safety, the manufacturer highly recommends unloading before using as a non-rifle tool. ;)


[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited November 01, 1999).]
 
On a hike of any length, like the Appalachian Trail, there will be many places where carrying a rifle or shotgun is illegal, either because it is not hunting season or because it is and you will not normally have a hunting license. That's why some hikers carry a "kit gun" type of handgun discretely hidden, something not easily done with your combination tool/gun.

Jim
 
Don't take it so hard it just tickled my funny bone at your expense. You might consider incorporating a fly rod instead of an ax. One Poster did identify one problem Stay out of parks of the National type..
 
Legal schmegel. If I'm packing in southern Appallachia, I want to have more than a sharp stick when I hear the dueling banjos begin. It folds and conceals in the pack.
 
Up in northeast Tennessee, where I am from originally, you would be wise to be packing some heat. Jethro and Clem aren't the problem, it's the Satanic cults that you have to worry about on that stretch of the Appy Trail and the marijuana growers. Every year or so people end up missing around through there. No way in hell I would be up there alone without an AR or better yet with 3 or 4 other friends with ARs too.
 
All I can see is the potential for an accidental discharge directly into the arms, upper torso, or head. Now we know you would have the presence of mind to unload it before using it as a tool, but what of all of the assorted doofi in the world?

My second thought is of all of the torque being put on the barrel, receiver, and stock. I dare say it would never maintain anything ressembling to a zero for very long.

If you need a lightweight spade, get a Glock entrenching tool and sharpen its blade.
 
the .223 walking stick may be more useful

6 foot of barrel encased in a hickory staff,
pop off the rubber bottom
pull back the knob on the end
kinda slow rate of fire thou...

for the axe/shovel part:
carry a 20 inch BAS Himalayan Import khurkuri

they are hammered out of Mercedes leaf springs
now thats a knife!

dZ
 
Doofi? -plural of doofus? funny

Daniel and dZ, you totally miss the point. The idea is to cut down weight, not add weight with other tools. Ask anyone who's packed for any distance. Every little ounce helps, and several ounces cut out helps enormously. Also, the other point is the length of the rifle makes for a far better tool than some little boy scout tool like the Glock entrencher, in addition to saving weight. As far as holding a zero, if you make this thing strong enough, it won't make any difference how much torque/abuse you can dish out. Daniel, yes the liability of the maker vis-a-vis doofi, is the main concern; hence the auto safety.
 
I understand your desire to cut weight. However, once you beef up your Victorinox Rifle to survive all of the chopping and digging, it will likely be as heavy as a conventional rifle and the tools you were trying to replace.

Remember, the locking mechanism for the retractable axe and shovel will have to withstand quite a bit of stress. Otherwise the first time one of the blades hits resistance, it will slam back home into the stock and defeat your 'automatic' safety: Rap-Slam-BANG!
 
Futo, I believe your idea has merit and I encourage you to try to realize it.

I saw the Glock entrenching tool and was underwhelmed... It was a toy. Maybe you could dig a foxhole for Barbie...

I, too, laughed at Doofi :D

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Be mentally deliberate, but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle.
Wyatt Earp
 
Futo,

Hmmm... Well, its the "Swiss Army Gun" I guess.

Actually, as a person who does actually take off into the Alaskan wilderness for weeks at a time, I guess I'm qualified to pass judgement and.... I can't think of a single use for an axe or shovel in a survival situation.
An axe could be useful I suppose, but theres plenty of much more weight conscious ways to solve the problem. They even make little wire saws that will roll up and fit in the watch pocket of your jeans. Hell, you can stomp dead wood into sections with your feet.
A shovel? What for?
Heres some items that you might need to survive in the wilderness: A map and compass, a space blanket, another space blanket, a third space blanket, some line and fish hooks, matches, more matches, a lighter and a gun. And some matches.

Expand the weight criteria a bit and I'll take one of those little pump water filters, some more matches and another space blanket.

What kills people in the wilderness is hypothermia and dehydration. You don't die of starvation, you die from drinking bad water and sh!!!ting all your fluids away or you simply freeze (in this climate). If you can keep hydrated and warm, you'll keep a clear head and get yourself out. Iodine tablets don't kill giardia which is common in all surface water in this country - it needs to be boiled or filtered out.

I speak from experience. I put myself in the situation by shooting some caribou miles from camp. We rolled up in space blankets and spent the night to keep the wolves and bears away. By the next morning were getting weak. There was no water except the nasty coffee colored stuff you see out in the tundra. By the time we boned out the caribou and started back we were getting giddy. I collapsed and couldn't go on, and thought I was having a heart attack or something. We weren't thinking clearly but eventually realized we were dehydrated - its insidious and robs you of your mental faculties. We boiled water in our little tin cups and eventually got out of there - a quart of water saved our lives.
Another friend had a similar experience near here on Afognak island. He tracked an elk till dark and then spent the night rather than give up his prize to bears. He collapsed the next day packing meat out and had to be medevaced by the Coast Guard - this guy is a marathon runner, in superb physical shape (unlike me).
At any rate, while your rifle is clever, its not really useful - I hope you take that the right way. you'd be better off rethinking your accessories.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
This has to be one of the worst ideas I have ever read.

"Git yur shovel/axe/bottle opener/gun, Pa! Injuns comin'! "
 
This reply to dZ

I know this is not the normal way to send a personal e-mail message, but I didn't find one on your replies or profile.

I am interested in your advice about
--get a 20 inch BAS Himalayan Import Khukuri--
I went to the referenced site and ohhed and ahhed at the photos, but I don't find a place to order the Khukuris. Advice?

You may reply off-forum to me at jpg43@aol.com

Thank you.

To Futo Inu----

Hey, don't feel bad. We ALL have some ideas that sound good to us but no one else.

Regards--
RR

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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
 
I recall seeing 16c wheeel-lock and battleax combo. I would think that a shotgun+tool is the obvioud combo, gvien that a shotgun need not be as accurate as a rifle.
 
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