Mannlicher
New member
Scott,
I find this all very confusing.
I find this all very confusing.
Going too far … where is the line?
- Thread starter Scott Evans
- Start date
This is a very tough question
The reasion that it is, is becouse in America today if some one shoots some one in self defence the chances of there lawyers coming to take your home away from you is very high.
SO what do you do?
Make sure that they cant come back to sue you, thats no answer but what do you do?
I have never shot any one and I hope to God that I am never put in that position. But if it ever happnes I will make sure that I and my family are safe from the bad guys.
The reasion that it is, is becouse in America today if some one shoots some one in self defence the chances of there lawyers coming to take your home away from you is very high.
SO what do you do?
Make sure that they cant come back to sue you, thats no answer but what do you do?
I have never shot any one and I hope to God that I am never put in that position. But if it ever happnes I will make sure that I and my family are safe from the bad guys.
I know of two occasions where something like this has occurred: In the first instance the attacker was knocked to the ground and momentarily stunned. The defender realized that he'd soon be back up; and (I thought) rather cleverly stomped his shin. Thereafter, the guy didn't get back up; he couldn't because his leg was broken. In the other situation, lacking pepper spray, the defender grabbed one of his attacker's fingers and broke it off. (That works, too!)
crashresidue
New member
OK, Guys - this is my first post on your forum. I'll be nice - YOU be gentle - OK?
Scott asked "where to draw the line" - when you feel SAFE!
I haven't fired a weapon in "anger or fear" in 30 something years. That doesn't mean that I'm not prepared, it just means that, so far - I've been lucky.
"Pepper spray", well thats like CS gas to me - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The most memorable thing about "gases" is that it WILL shut down a turbine engine if she eats enough of it. Oh Yea, I LOVE the sound of an "engine out horn!"
If you are un-armed, the best physical response is - immediate! Don't be dumb and mutter "What?" or "Hey!" Start your attack instantly! Like I said, I'm "out of date" but I was taught that the throat is the priority attack area. Even a slight hit there will make him grab for it, then you follow up with a knee in the nads, or a side knee kick that shatters the joint.
What ever you do - don't stop and "catch your breath" in the response - keep doing what ever you have to to keep him from getting back up again! If you pause, then it's "retaliation" if you continue to attack "Honest Officer, he stopped kicking him and then started again" - said the witness.
My three "laws" of carry: 1) Don't carry unless you think you're going to need it (Yea, right!)!
2) NEVER pull it unless you INTEND to use it!
3) NEVER use it unless you intend to kill!
The only time I don't have a weapon on me or close by is when I'm on a commercial flight. They get REALLY upset about that stuff now.
For about $270 US, you can get the NAA mini .22Mag - it's tiny! It fits in pockets - and at point blank range, it'll work wonders!
As that Montana sheriff said: "If you shoot an invader and he falls back out of the house, call me, and I'll help put him back in." Not ALL LEO's are against you - just give them a chance, and an excuse that they can live with.
Anyway, it's a great post - made me THINK - and Lord knows, I don't do enough of that.
Gentle winds,
cr
Scott asked "where to draw the line" - when you feel SAFE!
I haven't fired a weapon in "anger or fear" in 30 something years. That doesn't mean that I'm not prepared, it just means that, so far - I've been lucky.
"Pepper spray", well thats like CS gas to me - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The most memorable thing about "gases" is that it WILL shut down a turbine engine if she eats enough of it. Oh Yea, I LOVE the sound of an "engine out horn!"
If you are un-armed, the best physical response is - immediate! Don't be dumb and mutter "What?" or "Hey!" Start your attack instantly! Like I said, I'm "out of date" but I was taught that the throat is the priority attack area. Even a slight hit there will make him grab for it, then you follow up with a knee in the nads, or a side knee kick that shatters the joint.
What ever you do - don't stop and "catch your breath" in the response - keep doing what ever you have to to keep him from getting back up again! If you pause, then it's "retaliation" if you continue to attack "Honest Officer, he stopped kicking him and then started again" - said the witness.
My three "laws" of carry: 1) Don't carry unless you think you're going to need it (Yea, right!)!
2) NEVER pull it unless you INTEND to use it!
3) NEVER use it unless you intend to kill!
The only time I don't have a weapon on me or close by is when I'm on a commercial flight. They get REALLY upset about that stuff now.
For about $270 US, you can get the NAA mini .22Mag - it's tiny! It fits in pockets - and at point blank range, it'll work wonders!
As that Montana sheriff said: "If you shoot an invader and he falls back out of the house, call me, and I'll help put him back in." Not ALL LEO's are against you - just give them a chance, and an excuse that they can live with.
Anyway, it's a great post - made me THINK - and Lord knows, I don't do enough of that.
Gentle winds,
cr
If I think he's not stopping (and I don't think the average idiot is going to stop at an armlock) I might let it go, but how does he convince me that he's stopping? If he doesn't convince me, then you're darn right I break the arm.
I'll be screaming for him to stop and calling for help the whole time, though. I want it clearly understood that whatever I do, I do to stop him from hurting people, and if he gets hurt in the process, it's only because that's what had to be done to keep everybody safer.
My CPI training beat into my head the mantra that I take action to "protect the health, well-being, safety and security of everyone involved." However, CPI is designed for people who have some obligation to the person they confront--guards, medical workers, teachers on the job. It doesn't take into account that sometimes you have to choose between the health and safety of good people vs. the health and safety of a bad guy.
Also, I made the decision a long time ago that I don't care if he was a nice guy yesterday or will be tomorrow. If he wants to hurt me, he has to stop.
I'll be screaming for him to stop and calling for help the whole time, though. I want it clearly understood that whatever I do, I do to stop him from hurting people, and if he gets hurt in the process, it's only because that's what had to be done to keep everybody safer.
My CPI training beat into my head the mantra that I take action to "protect the health, well-being, safety and security of everyone involved." However, CPI is designed for people who have some obligation to the person they confront--guards, medical workers, teachers on the job. It doesn't take into account that sometimes you have to choose between the health and safety of good people vs. the health and safety of a bad guy.
Also, I made the decision a long time ago that I don't care if he was a nice guy yesterday or will be tomorrow. If he wants to hurt me, he has to stop.
In no particular order:
Shoot to stop. Fight to stop. Keep the rhetoric simple. Understand that when dealing with less than lethal force the legal system may require you to engage in several start-stop scenarios depending oin a variety of factors.
The reasonabless of your actions will be tested the usual way.
OC spray effects are unreliable. Given the range and time lines involved I hope you've got realistic, stress tested options.
Preparation is key. Take the necessary steps. Having weapons access is part of the equation. Only part, the size of which is dependant on a variety of factors different to us all.
Shoot to stop. Fight to stop. Keep the rhetoric simple. Understand that when dealing with less than lethal force the legal system may require you to engage in several start-stop scenarios depending oin a variety of factors.
The reasonabless of your actions will be tested the usual way.
OC spray effects are unreliable. Given the range and time lines involved I hope you've got realistic, stress tested options.
Preparation is key. Take the necessary steps. Having weapons access is part of the equation. Only part, the size of which is dependant on a variety of factors different to us all.
Its hard to say what you will do in a certain situation! aside from wetting your pants! Only once i was in a situation were i didnt have my weapon near me, and when its a life and death situation it will amaze yourself of what you can do! You have teeth fingers feet , kick gouge stick your fingers in eyes nose ears , bite!! Bite Hard!! kick stomp anything to get the upper hand, and dont stop till you can be assured that the threat is over for the time being! But dont ever give UP! 
Also keep in mind the fact we ar not talking about the run of the mill bar brawl here. Can't pull your gun just because you're afraid of getting your butt kicked in a bar where you shouldn;t have your weapon anyway.
We're talking about total random acts of violence right? As always, be prepared and be aware at all times. Situational awareness will save you're butt 99% of the time. If you're situational awareness is good, then you should have plenty of time to recognize when things aren't right and get out of Dodge. If awareness is not your specialty then you better practice 'cause it goes a long way.
We're talking about total random acts of violence right? As always, be prepared and be aware at all times. Situational awareness will save you're butt 99% of the time. If you're situational awareness is good, then you should have plenty of time to recognize when things aren't right and get out of Dodge. If awareness is not your specialty then you better practice 'cause it goes a long way.