Going off "half-cocked"

R

Redneck2

New member
I have typically carried my 1911 at 1/2 cock. I'm not comfortable with the cocked & locked, and no, I don't need flamed....that's how I feel. YMMV.

So anyway, I'm on the 1911 forum and they make a real big deal about how unsafe 1/2 cock is.

I've tried every way possible to full the trigger...won't budge.

Why is this mode of carry so "unsafe" ???
 
Well for one thing you have to lower the hammer on a live round. Granted you don't lower it the whole way but you are still pulling the trigger when you do not intend for the pistol to fire.

Also thumbing the hammer back when you DO want it to fire is not as sure as just flipping the safety off.
 
First of all, I carried a .45 Commander for a number of years "condition one", and never had a problem - I was still uncomfortable with it the entire time, and it finally gave way to a S&W 4516.
That said (so you will know this isn't a flame) the half-cock was not intended for that type of carry, even though that is the popular conception of it. The intent was that it be a "catch notch" for a hammer that had slipped off the sear unintentionally. IF you are comfortable with condition one carry, you have the thumb safety, and grip safety as well as a thumb break on the holster if you chose that type of rig. Still, I know hwat you mean - the feeling just never went away.
 
I understand your apprehension. REALLY...but one point of caution is the half cock notch is a safety. If you use it as an actual hammer position you will eventually wear the notch and it will not work as intended. Kinda ironic but true. Its meant to catch the hammer when it falls and not allow it to hit the firing pin.
Shoot well
 
What Eric said. Do NOT carry a 1911 at half cock! A modern 1911 is extremely safe at full cock, and the 1911 was designed to be carried that way. You are just risking damage to an integral safety feature of the firearm.

If you are uncomfortable with C&L for carry, you will be better served by a DA/SA or Glock-type action.
 
All of the above are correct and I couldn't agree more!

Carry Cond. 1
Carry Cond. 3
Or Don't Carry a 1911 at all.
Cond. 2 is dangerous because you defeat two safeties on an otherwise very safe gun.
 
Going Off Half Cocked!

I don't know about the 1911, but I am familiar with a BHP clone (FEG PJK 9hp).

I had an AD once many years ago when the pistol was half cocked. It was in a holster in a desk drawer. I opened the drawer grabbed something out and closed the drawer a little too hard. The gun went off and killed a stapler in the drawer above.

While trying to figure out what the heck had happened I noticed that when half cocked the slide will slide, and it only has to slide a little ways to bring the hammer into contact with the firing pin. With the pistol fully cocked the hammer cannot accidently strike the firing pin even if it does slide all the way back.
 
I was informed during training with the .45 M1911a1 in MP school 27 years ago, that the half cock notch was designed to prevent the hammer from falling completely in the event the pistol malfunctioned or your thumb slipped when cocking it.

I was then informed that the half cock notch was not secure enough to hold the hammer if it was dropped and or struck.

I was taught to carry condition three or use condition one in combat. NEVER to use the half cock notch with a loaded chamber.

I often have carried 1911's in the intervening years in conditions 1,2 and 3 but never 2 and a 1/2.

Biggest problem with the halfcock notch is "not" that it will not fall when you pull the trigger. It "WILL" fall if it gets bumped and if you are carrying it it "WILL" get bumped.

Be Safe, not sorry!
 
I thought that the Series 80 firing pin lock was intended to preclude all that stuff.

You can carry a Series 80 on half cock or hammer down on a full chamber. Now whether you have the manual dexterity to safely drop the hammer on a loaded chamber is up to your judgment.

I think it's ok to caution people against certain modes of carry but you should always be able to explain why.

The problem with the traditional Colt 45 Automatic as John by God Browning designed it was the inertial firing pin that allowed the pin itself to jump forward given enough impetus. Even then, the only way they could make a .45 go off without pulling the trigger was to drop it on concrete from something like two stories up making sure it landed on its muzzle, IIRC. It is a v-e-r-y v-e-r-y rare occurrence.

Now, if the problem is poor gunhandling - we could write a book on that!
 
So while you have defeated the safeties by carrying in half cock, what advantage have you gained? You certainly have not gained the advantage of a gun that is ready for use - and that too may be very dangerous.

Lowering the hammer on a live round when not intending to fire is never a good idea with a 1911, Series 80 or not. Don't do it. Why? Because you aren't supposed to have your finger on the trigger in the first place unless you are going to fire the gun. The trigger is for firing the gun, and not for monkeying with the hammer.
 
Big G,

Series 80 does not have a half cock. Neither do current SAs. The half cock notch has been replaced by a "safety stop" which is solely to catch the hammer if dropped. It is not undercut to hold the sear and the hammer will fall the rest of the way if the trigger is pulled. Not a way to carry.

All the way down in Condition 2 is safe on a S80 or a 1911 with a good firing pin spring, the trick is getting there safely. I used to do it until I learned better. I have shot a CZ 75 in DA/SA which requires easing the hammer down. No ADs... yet; but I am very careful and am always aware of where the gun is pointing in case I slip.
 
Hi Jim,

You're right Colt S80 has safety stop not captive half cock as earlier Colts. My mistake.

I just wonder about the dogmatic statements that some posters make saying NO, NEVER, THOU SHALT NOT.

I'm not saying I carry my S80 with the hammer down, I'm just saying I trust myself enough to do it if I wanted to and I hope everyone else will get familiar enough with their chosen weapon to safely handle it.
 
You also give up the ability to use the thumb safety when you leave the gun half-cocked. If you're that worried about safety of the 1911, I'd suggest another pistol, because I believe you're making the gun more dangerous to carry than if carried properly. I don't mean this a a flame, it's just a simple fact. C&L carry isn't for everyone, that's why guns come in so many flavors.
 
Concern about C&L is a very common thing and really, very reasonable. But C&L is really the safest way to carry a 1911 or HP and have it ready to use.

Can I suggest that you start carrying it constantly in C&L but unloaded. That will be safe and I think with a few days of carry, when you can see that it really won't go off, you'll feel comfortable with carrying C&L and loaded.
 
What you are doing is not safe. You are putting yourself and everyone around you in great danger. You have by passed the safeties and energized the hammer spring. If cocked and locked made you uncomfortable this should make you a nervous wreak.

I will second the idea of finding another pistol to carry.
 
You either need to carry hammer down on an empty chamber, or get yourseld one of the Para LDA guns.
 
I second jar's opinion. I too, felt VERY unsafe in the C & L position. So I carried for 2-3 weeks without one in the chamber. I continually reached and felt the thumb safety to make sure it was still on. I wore the gun constantly; sitting, driving, working in the yard, working on the motorcycle - everywhere! Never did the safety come off. I am now comfortable with it C & L. The Glock types I really feel uncomfortable with. Haven't taken this one on yet.
 
My 1967 ventage 1911 Colt experience is megar but I do remember how to prevent the gun from going off while "half-cocked.
On a 1911 that has been worked on, when the slide falls, the gun has a tendancy to go off unless you HOLD THE TRIGGER BACK.
 
Why does everyone feel the need to use 1911s in ways they shouldn't? We all know that Conditions 1 or 3 are the only recommended practices, right? How about this:

Get yourself a nice reliable Beretta 92 and stick a bullet into the front end of the barrel like a cork. That way, no dirt or dust can get in, and your barrel will be nice and clean when you need to shoot. Just pull the bullet out first.

Or you could fix the long trigger pull on your DAO semi-auto by using a zip-tie to hold the trigger back halfway all the time. Then, when it's time to fire, you'll have a nice, short trigger pull.

Come on, guys.
 
Skip stuffing a cartridge in the muzzle and just use a piece of scotch or electrical tape over the muzzle if you're worried about dirt & dust.

If you fire the gun, you don't need to worry about pulling the tape off the muzzle -- it pops off from the build in pressure.
 
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