Going deaf from .357 Mag indoors

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Monty

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Urban legend or Fact?

I wonder cause I just replaced my nightstand gun (a Ruger Speed Six 2 3/4" load with .357 Mags) with a Ruger KP-90 .45ACP based on the horror stories I have heard about firing a .357 Mag indoors. Felt I wanted more punch than .38 Specials could deliver. Thanks.
 
I'd rather be deaf than dead any day.

I'm not a doctor, but I've been told by many "safety" oriented people (OSHA comes to mind) that it is prolonged exposure to constant noise that causes hearing loss... not sudden trauma from a one-time event. I don't plan on testing this theory any time soon but it makes sense to me.
 
Several articles I've read recently make a strong case for having the new electronic ear protection muff as part of your home protection equipment.

A safe room for the spouse and kids, a plan (just like you'd have for a fire), and ear protection which goes on as soon as you perceive a threat. (The electronic muffs actually let you hear BETTER, if you crank up the volume... but still dampen out the loud explosions.)

I think this will be a XMAS present from me to me...



[This message has been edited by Walt Sherrill (edited August 23, 1999).]
 
I have been subjected to gunfire with no hearing protection, both indoors and outside. Here are some quick observations.

When shooting 44/41/357mag/45 acp +p/10mm/.357sig inside of a building especially hallways with tile floors there is a high probability of busting an ear drum (happened to me twice). If this occurs under duress you won't notice until you try and talk or someone yells at you and you can't tell where it is coming from (no stereo sound to direction find with). If you aren't under duress it will hurt like hell. A busted ear drum heals up fine in about 1 to 2 weeks.

Indoors with carpeted floors are MUCH better at eating the sound up.

If someone is shooting at you or a partner is shooting from behind you the sound is very intense due to the muzzle blast in your direction.

It is interesting that someone is bringing up this very important point of a handguns loudness. Most of the time people go to a range and wear hearing protection never knowing the effects of sound on your shooting skill. When the poop hits the fan and a prolonged fire fight occurs your own handgun can reduce your ability to hear your enemy (sneak up on ya and hit you in the head ;) ).

People may differ in this but I find the .45 standard velocity to be tolerable and the 9mm very tolerable in extended unprotected shooting. My 10mm/.357sig/.357mag would cause temporary deafness in just a few rounds. You can't fight deaf as well as you can with your hearing.
FWIW,
Hiker
 
Hiker,

If you are shooting w/out hearing protection on any sort of a consistent basis, you are going deaf slowly but surely.
 
Actually, a one time event can cause some loss of hearing. I was unfortunate enough to be in the cab of a pickup truck when a 30-06 rifle was discharged in the cab and it hurt like hell. Two years ago a .44 magnum revolver was discharged in a vehicle in which I was riding and likewise my ears rang for several minutes. No, these were not negligent or accidental discharges...I need to travel in a safer crowd...

Almost 15 years ago I was in a hotel lobby when the local police had a firefight with a real bad guy. Almost 20 rounds were fired from .41 mag, .44 mag and .357 mag revolvers. Couldn't hear a damn thing and was afraid my hearing was permanently damaged. Personally, I use ear protection when I go to the range but I really don't think I have the time to dig out my ear plugs in the event of an armed encounter. As for home protection, the last thing I would worry about is my ears, I would be more concerned with my ass...
 
I think Walt Sherril has a good idea their.....years ago we shot without hearing protection and most of the older shooters I know of cant hear with out a hearing aid today and I would benefit from one......used to take a buckett of ammo or bricks of 22's and shoot the afternoon away in them arroyos---I miss those days and I miss my hearing too.......I like those electronic hearing devices that Mr. Sherril was talking about everyone I know that have used em likes em....fubsy.
 
I don't shoot without hearing protection normaly but I do on ocassion pratice a few rounds without hearing protection to remain accoustom to the noise. I have met many people who do not shoot very well without hearing protection because of sound "flinch" it is almost as bad as someone who is afraid of recoil.

I'm not trying to advocate poor hearing safety but I do think people need to become at least exposed with the sound their firearm makes, especially if it is for personal protection. I don't think most people would stop and put hearing protection on prior to firing their weapon to defend themself.

Many people don't take into account the muzzle blast/noise of a CCW when they select it and I think that this could be a negative thing in the event they had to use the weapon and are not prepared for the sound and possible temp deafness and how this could effect follow up shots or their ability to defend themselves if the fight last for more than a few moments.

Groups who train to fight either use reactive hearing protection or none at all.

This is my opinion from my experience. My hearing is also perfect as reported by my annual physical in July ;)
Hiker
 
Yes, one shot can cause permanent hearing loss. And any shooting without hearing protection will cause damage over a period of time. Some people seem to have more resistance to noise induced hearing loss than others, but eventually they too will succumb to the difficulties of understanding speech in the presence of background noise and tinnitus (ringing in the ears). These are two of the initial symptoms of the nerve damage to the inner ear from the loudness of the noise. Yes, you may be caught in a situation where you don't have ear protection and you're caught in a fire fight and your hearing will be your last concern, but I really wouldn't tempt fate just to practice a few shots for that 'just in case situation'. Protect your hearing and it will last a lifetime and even if you have hearing loss, protect what you have left because yes, it can get worse. Joyce (an audiologist and shooter)
 
Hi, Monty,

How often do you plan to shoot your nightstand gun indoors?

If your home is invaded by bad guys often enough to give you hearing problems, you better call a moving company.

If you need that gun in a hurry, the noise will be the least of your worries, and don't take time to put on ear muffs and shooting glasses.

Jim
 
One time events such as gun fire do cause permanent hearing damage. How much depends on the gun and the person. When you loose a small fraction at a time, you don't notice it too much because the hearing loss is gradual.

It is fairly obvious you have a real problem when the "dial tone" doesn't go away after a few years. Not being able to understand conversations in a crowd really sucks.

If my life is at stake, hearing loss is low on the list of survival concerns. I personally think anyone who routinely shoots without hearing protection intentionally is foolish. If you can do it without hearing damage, I really want to figure which gene pool you are a member of because that is something special...just like above average intelligence, phyical build......

When you break those little hairs off in the cochlea, they don't grow back. Nerve damage is permanent (at least until the next medical miracle).

If hearing preservation is part of your self defense requirements, sub sonic 45ACP is a good start in the right direction. Avoid compensated pistols, and seek longer barrels.

Sid


[This message has been edited by Sid Post (edited August 24, 1999).]
 
Ehh??...Whudzatchuzay? Yeah we got bathrooms indoors, Sonny. Had 'em for years. Whaddya think we are, a buncha hicks?

Fubsy: I hear you, but I wish it were literally, also.

Joyce: You're clinically right on the mark. What clinical analysis doesn't convey from my personal vewpoint, is what the loss of hearing means to quality of life. I'd trade the bajillions of crickets in my head for a few sweet bird songs, for hearing what a small child is trying to tell me, and to hear (and understand? Never!!) what most female companions have to say without "watching their lips".

Hiker: There is absolutely no justifiable need to "practice" becoming deaf! Trust me on this one! Save that for when dire circumstance offer no alternatives.

Monty: Although unattenuated gunfire indoors can sometimes be disorienting, it is usually offset by the adrenalin surge of the fight/flight response. Ergo, when the situation stabilizes is when the damage becomes apparent. If you're really concerned, buy a suppressor. But that is only half of the answer, unless of course, the intruder/perpetrator is armed and similarly suppressed. Now that would certainly qualify as a quiet riot...

------------------
Mykl
~~~~~
"If you really want to know what's going on;
then, you have to follow the money trail."
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
Mykl,
So what your saying is that a combatant who always trains with hearing protection is just as good as someone who has been exposed to live fire exercises? I don't know your background but in the military the live fire exercises are the best training and most realistic. Being able to operate and shoot precisely with live fire is COMPLETELY different than shooting that same target with hearing protection. If you don't believe that then you are fooling yourself. ;)

Don't get me wrong, what I'm saying is use your hearing protection always but expose yourself to the environment in which you will have to perform in. Be prepard Train like you fight, fight like you train. You need to know what your going to be up against in a real life scenario and being a good shot with hearing protection doesn't necessarily mean your a good shot without hearing protection.
Hiker
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I think my decision to switch from the .357 Mag to a .45ACP is a good one and believe that any hearing loss I may suffer from one day having to fire my nightstand gun indoors will be minimized. I'll still use a .357 Mag as a carry gun as the likelyhood of it being discharged isn't as great in my opinion. Thanks again for all the feedback.
 
I'd like to know what 'orginization' shoots w/out hearing protection?

I'd also like to know how much shooting sans hearing protection is needed to become as good a shot w/out hearing protection as with?

(MAYBE THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN ALL CAPS :) )
 
I know someone who after shooting their .38 with ear protection walked home through the woods and plinked one round without ear protection. That one round resulted in the condition Joyce mentioned (tinnitus - permanent ringing in the ears). So it doesn't have to be a .357 to cause damage.

I heared a 2nd hand story of an FBI agent who during a confrentation was forced to fire his .357 in self defense. He was in a large marble hallway of a school or building and was so stunned by the loudness of the blast he became disoriented and was unable to fire another round.

This is why I will not use a .357 for self defense. Something else to consider is who else may be close by when you are forced to fire in self defense. (wife, children, etc.) You may not have time to warn them before you fire. Carjacking.....What if you were forced to fire from your vehicle with your children in the back seat and windows up? Although no gun would sound pleasant, the blast from a .357 in a closed in space could have a devastating effect.
 
Prichard,
USMC ,US Navy SEALS, and US Army when doing live fire infantry and SF training. It is kind of hard to give orders to troops and have them follow them when they have ear plugs in.
Hiker
 
Are you talking from personal experience? If so what time frame? I've read that he armed forces now issue earplugs. Any 'operators' out there doing this? (ANY OPERATORS OUT THERE DOING THIS ON THE BOARD :))
 
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