Going back to an M&P!

G

Georgian

New member
Hey yall. Back in December, I decided to try the P320 Carry, my first and only Sig. I fell in love with the gun, it is accurate and easy for me to shoot well. I shoot quite a bit of steel case 9mm, and have quite a bit on hand. I expect any handgun I own to be able to shoot it in an emergency and at the range. The P320 ran the steel case at first, but over the last few months, it has began to completely choke on steel. Although I ensured the extractor and it's components were consistently cleaned, the P320 chokes on every other round of steel and fails to extractor every time. I installed a Lone Wolf extractor hoping this might solve the issue, but it did not. I also ordered completely new extractor parts from Sig to replace them all, but decided I no longer trust this gun with my life and do not believe sending it back to Sig would solve anything, as they will only tell me not to run steel.

As a result, I made the choice to go back to an M&P, as the GEN 1 and 2.0 I've had over the years never malfunctioned with any type of ammo I ran through them. I now have a M&P9 2.0 FDE with the Truglo FTX sights on the way and plan to provide a complete range repo
 
If a firearm runs brass and defensive ammo fine then I would still trust my life with it, but I realize I may be biased as I rarely use steel. Enjoy going back to M&Ps.


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Whatever floats your boat, but personally I don't see the point of dumping an otherwise reliable firearm just because it won't cycle cheap steel-cased ammo reliably.

But then again, I don't understand why so many folks pay for premium brand firearms only to feed them the cheapest ammo they can possibly get their hands on either, and plenty of folks do that too.

Different strokes.
 
I have attempted to diagnose the problem with other Sig owners, and none can offer any insight other than "don't feed it cheap ammo". That argument does not hold water with me. I understand that steel case ammo is looked at as being lower quality and in the past maybe it was. I have shot case after case of the stuff and have seen good accuracy and reliability with it out of Glocks, M&Ps, Rugers, and even SCCY handguns; some people believe it is dirtier than other types of ammo, but I personally have not seen that. When I have to pry a stuck casing out of a handgun with a reputation like Sig, something is wrong. Some people may be able to live with the fact that their gun runs fine only with brass or they only intend to feed it with brass, but if I need to use any kind of ammo (within reason) in an emergency, I want to be able to depend on my gun cycling that ammo. I wanted to like the Sig, and did for awhile, but I don't want to have to worry about having a Type 3 Malf in a bad situation.
 
Drop a Sig in Favor of Steel Ammo!

Drop any gun in favor of Steel Ammo!

EDC FMJ Steel Ammo!

I've heard it all now!

Isn't there a saying "Throw the Baby out with the Bath water"..LOL

Ammoseek Steel Case FMJ: 1,000 Rounds $177.00

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger?nr=1000&ca=steel

Ammoseek Brass FMJ: 1,000 Rounds $254.00 (Blazer Brass)
There is less expensive Brass at $229.00 which would br $2.50 more than Steel per box of 50.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger/-handgun-124grains?ca=brass&ikw=FMJ&nr=1000

Steel to Blazer Brass = $80.00 / $4.00 per box of 50 for Brass..

I would not toss a Gun I like but look for the best Deal on Brass.
I didn't use steel even when I shot my M&P Shield.

I do not Carry FMJ Ammo..so I don't know why I would want to shoot Steel.
I use Federal HST JHP for my Carry ammo.
 
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Aside from extractor issues, I'm guessing something is decreasing the velocity of the slide moving both rearwards and forwards. Fouling or dry frame rails, the grooves in the slide that the frame rails ride on, recoil spring, contact surfaces of the barrel and maybe even the chamber. Not knowing the nature of the malfunctions, making sure those are clean and lubricated would do it.

Still, it's strange. Usually I'd think it would be backwards: during the break in period, springs are stiffer and parts aren't burnished yet, so I'd expect the weak seal of the steel case against the chamber walls would be more likely to provide inadequate rearward force. Instead, yours started out fine and then had malfunctions which makes me think of anything that would increase resistance as time goes on. Good luck, I still have my Gen 1 M&P 40c / 9c and while I've felt the pull of all these new guns, I like the size of it.
 
I do not carry steel case for defense; I use Hornady Critical Duty 135gr hollow points. But if I ever did need to use it to defend myself with it (in an emergency), I want my carry gun to cycle it.

Slide velocity is not an issue, as it feeds and ejects brass 4-6 feet to my 3-5 o'clock and the gun was properly maintained after every range session.
 
^^^^^ Ditto!

I don't know what to tell you Georgian,

My Home Defense & EDC P320 X-Compact Rx is always loaded with Federal HST 124g JHP

My EDC P365 is always Loaded with HST 124g JHP

And I would bet that your Defensive Firearms are always loaded with your Hornady Critical Duty 135gr hollow points.
You would not slip up and leave Steel Cased Ammo loaded.

I have always heard that it is best to Train with what you carry and we know that you do not Carry Steel Cased Ammo!
So...How is your Steel Case Ammo at I'm sure a a different Grain than the Critical Duty's 135g going to help you train?
So when it is time to shoot your Hornady Critical Duty 135g JHP?
it will feel as natural as shooting your Steel Case Ammo?
In a real Emergency the Critical Duty 135g JHP will not shoot the same as your Steel Case Ammo
So you are actually doing a disservice to yourself, & Loved Ones when your skill needs to be at it's best.

Whereas my range time is spent shooting ALL 124g Brass the only difference is FMJ or JHP.

So in my Emergency the Brass 124g JHP I will feel as Comfortable (recoil) and Accurate as my Range Training with Brass 124g FMJ

You do not want the bulk of your shooting to be with a completely different round than what you will be shooting in a Emergency Live situation!
Does that make sense to you?

Also when I go to the Range I shoot both FMJ & JHP..
When you are at the range do you shoot both the FMJ Steel Cased Ammo & the Hornady Critical Duty 135g JHP?
If so how different do these 2 rounds feel when shooting them?

The whole reason for training with a comparable ammo to your defensive ammo is that FMJ is cheaper than just Training exclusively with your Defensive ammo.
In a perfect world and if you could afford it... is to Train exclusively with your JHP Defensive ammo since that is what you are going to be carrying and have at home!

Just Sayin'
 
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We can easily debate it both ways, in the end the OP believes a quality pistol should perform under all scenarios, regardless of how likely or unlikely it is.
 
....sounds like Sig meant it when they advised don't shoot steel in the owner's manual...there must be a reason....Rod
 
I don't know what the fuss is about.

If the OP wants to drop SIG (good choice to drop) because of his gun being incapable of running steel cased range ammo, then so be it.

I'd like my every day carry or any gun in my stable to be able to run anything I put through it. Then again....That may also be why my stable is so much smaller than it once was. Got rid of the picky safe queens that need excess attention.
 
Just out of curiosity, what brand of steel case ammo was your Sig having problems with? Not all steel case ammo is of the same quality in my experience. I personally have had much better luck with Wolf and Tula than with Brown/Silver/Golden Bear. I've not tried the Winchester USA Forged steel case, but I've not heard good things (I've personally sworn off Winchester ammo due to various problems I've had over the years).
 
I would also be interested in knowing what the nature of the malfunctions are. You said it was malfunctioning every couple of rounds?

I've got... I don't know, 2700 rounds into my SIG. I've never had any problem running steel case. Probably 500 of those have been steel case. My only malfs have been related to hard primers (or light primer strikes perhaps, though I would put my money in hard primers).

That being said I'm thinking about moving to an M&P 2.0 myself

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I ran Wolf and Tulammo through it with the same results, every other round exhibiting a Type 3 Malfunction, failure to extract. The case is either partially extracted (with half in/out of the chamber) or completely stuck in the chamber.
 
It almost sounds to me like you're having a pressure issue, if the extractor isn't fixing the problem. Are the casings difficult to pull out if the chamber?

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A lot of steel cased ammo has a thin lacquer coating on the case. This tends to build up on the chamber walls and leads to tough extraction. Ive seen it make a loaded round impossible to extract to unload the gun. Luckily, it happened during a training class and being on a range we just fired that round to get it out.

I would imagine a build up of this lacquer could cause the fired case to stick enough to cause a type 3 malfunction.

Before i gave up on the pistol, i would clean the heck out of the chamber. Like soak it in a solvent overnight and then chuck a chamber brush onto a rod in a drill and scrub the crap out of it. Get every last bit of lacquer out.

The brush is WAY softer then the steel of the chamber. Your not going to hurt it if you only let the brush touch anything.
 
The last time I took it to the range I ensured it was as clean as possible. I ran 100 rounds of brass through it to warm it up. I then attempted to run steel, and it choked every other round, TYPE 3 MALF, with some of the cases needing to be pryed out of the chamber. I did attempt to chock up a bore brush in my drill motor, but it broke in short order. None of the other handguns I have ran it through have gotten any sort of coating on the inside of the chamber nor experienced any issues with the same steel case I have been attempting to use in the P320. I maintain all my firearms in the same manner, and clean after every range session.
 
That sounds more an more like a stuck case due to a pressure issue if you're having trouble even prying the case out. if you pull the barrel out, and put a snap cap, or casing (steel, or brass) does it have problems sliding into and out of the chamber?

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A lot of folks on here trying to convince the OP to change his ways. If a man wants to buy a Ferrari and trade it in when it doesn’t run well on regular gas, that’s totally his business!
 
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