Glocks go KABOOM?
- Thread starter Hard Ball
- Start date
http://greent.com/40Page/ for the Glock KB
faq - Kaboom means the explosive deconstruction of the firearm due to an ammo problem interacting with the construction of the gun.
Thought you were a gun writer? Other guns KB also - double charged ammo and myriad other problems.
faq - Kaboom means the explosive deconstruction of the firearm due to an ammo problem interacting with the construction of the gun.
Thought you were a gun writer? Other guns KB also - double charged ammo and myriad other problems.
Rainbow Six
New member
Yeah, all Glocks are time bombs. They are also inherently very unsafe due to their lack of external, side mounted "idiot proof switch" (safety for it's fans 
). I suggest that anyone who still has any Glocks ship them immediately to my FFL so that I can dispose of them properly. 
**Anything mechanical can and eventually will fail no matter who manufactured it.**
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Georgia TFL'ers get together:
May 20, 2000-From 3pm to 6pm
http://www.wolfcreek-gun.com
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R6...aka...Chris
). I suggest that anyone who still has any Glocks ship them immediately to my FFL so that I can dispose of them properly. **Anything mechanical can and eventually will fail no matter who manufactured it.**
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Georgia TFL'ers get together:
May 20, 2000-From 3pm to 6pm
http://www.wolfcreek-gun.com
***************************
R6...aka...Chris
Will Beararms
New member
Other guns do explode but I hear of and read about more glocks than any other make of gun.
I know of a Glock 21 glabooming with reloads and a Glock 17 glabooming with reloads. The .40 S&W is supposedly the most prone to this due to the fact that the chamber is unsupported in the six o'clock position meaning the shell casing is exposed on the end.
I have shot a Glock 22 thousands of times with reloads and had no problems. Nevertheless, if you count up all of the kabooms on record, Glocks lead the tally by far. I will get flamed for this but the numbers don't lie.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
I know of a Glock 21 glabooming with reloads and a Glock 17 glabooming with reloads. The .40 S&W is supposedly the most prone to this due to the fact that the chamber is unsupported in the six o'clock position meaning the shell casing is exposed on the end.
I have shot a Glock 22 thousands of times with reloads and had no problems. Nevertheless, if you count up all of the kabooms on record, Glocks lead the tally by far. I will get flamed for this but the numbers don't lie.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
Will Beararms
New member
Guns are dangerous. Riding motocross is dangerous. If you can't deal with the risks------stay away.
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
The guy asks a legitimate question and gets inane Church of Glock replies. I doubt all Glcoks will Kb but it seems that many folks epxerience this with Glocks in all calibers. Just search the archives here and at www.glocktalk.com While any pistol can Kb why is it that one reads more posts about Glocks? I'd rather diminish my risks and go with a company that has far fewer reported Kbs like a SIG Sauer.
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So many pistols, so little money.
[This message has been edited by Tecolote (edited May 20, 2000).]
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So many pistols, so little money.
[This message has been edited by Tecolote (edited May 20, 2000).]
Will beararms makes an excellent point.
We DO hear about Glock KBs far in excess of other guns KBing. This can be attributed to any one of the following reasons, or a combination thereof:
1. Glocks actually KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, all things else being held equal, due to a fault in the design/manufacture the pistol.
2. Glocks actually KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, due to a trend amongst their owners of selecting troublesome/lowgrade/excessively-hot-reloaded ammo in excess of that tendency in owners of other guns.
3. Glocks actually KB at a rate in excess of other pistols due to glock owners performing less necessary maintenance than is performed by the owners of other guns.
4. Glocks do not KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, but glock KBs are reported more frequently than other KBs.
5. Glocks do not KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, but glock KBs are given more 'air time' in the popular and/or gun press than other KBs.
6. Glocks do not KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, but Glocks account for a disproportionate percentage of the pistols in use.
7. Glocks do not KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, but Glocks are fired significantly more often than are other pistols.
And here I thought I'd never actually use my graduate stats classes.
Which of the above reasons is it (or which combination)? Heck, I don't know. If you can give me good data, though, I could tell you.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
We DO hear about Glock KBs far in excess of other guns KBing. This can be attributed to any one of the following reasons, or a combination thereof:
1. Glocks actually KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, all things else being held equal, due to a fault in the design/manufacture the pistol.
2. Glocks actually KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, due to a trend amongst their owners of selecting troublesome/lowgrade/excessively-hot-reloaded ammo in excess of that tendency in owners of other guns.
3. Glocks actually KB at a rate in excess of other pistols due to glock owners performing less necessary maintenance than is performed by the owners of other guns.
4. Glocks do not KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, but glock KBs are reported more frequently than other KBs.
5. Glocks do not KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, but glock KBs are given more 'air time' in the popular and/or gun press than other KBs.
6. Glocks do not KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, but Glocks account for a disproportionate percentage of the pistols in use.
7. Glocks do not KB at a rate in excess of other pistols, but Glocks are fired significantly more often than are other pistols.
And here I thought I'd never actually use my graduate stats classes.
Which of the above reasons is it (or which combination)? Heck, I don't know. If you can give me good data, though, I could tell you.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
There are a hell of alot of Glocks out there. Glock has something like 65% of the L.E. market, so we are going to hear more about Glock KB's than the others. Another aspect is many of these stories get passed around on the internet, so sometimes it is the same incident being told different ways. Now all of a sudden it is the .357 sig rounds blowing up because of bullet setback. If I recall I have also heard of H&K's KB'ing in .40 S&W. A poster right here at TFL had his Ruger P89 KB. I think in the .40's case, it was a result of a weak web area. Now the ammo makers are using stronger casings. Hopefully these problems will be taken care of soon.
Rainbow Six
New member
I'm gonna say that Coronach probably hit the nail on the head with numbers 5 and 6 with slight leanings toward number 7 also. Also, keep in mind that our "information" is coming across the internet, where anyone can create any story they want to tell. Some KB's are documented with pics and are apparently reliable and some sound like an anti-Glocker's variation of an anti-gunner's personal manufactured gun related horror story that never happened at all.
I could make up a story about a new SIG KB'ing and even take a few pictures of my gun, put them through COREL and make "real" digital pics of a SIG missing half of it's slide. Photo editing isn't that difficult.
The ones I have seen "documented" on the net have all seemed to be ammo/bullet set back related and not gun specific. Take what you see on the net for what it's worth. Just my .02
R6
Church of Glock
I could make up a story about a new SIG KB'ing and even take a few pictures of my gun, put them through COREL and make "real" digital pics of a SIG missing half of it's slide. Photo editing isn't that difficult.
The ones I have seen "documented" on the net have all seemed to be ammo/bullet set back related and not gun specific. Take what you see on the net for what it's worth. Just my .02
R6
Church of Glock
Since I am looking to purchase my first Glock, Are you telling me it has a greater chance to blow up in my face then any of my standard hardframe/alloy handguns? 
Or is this a bum rap
Happy Shooting
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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
Or is this a bum rap
Happy Shooting
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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
locknload:
My point is that we don't know. Now, that sounds all kinds of ominous and sinister...like some stupid newspaper headline: "GLOCK RELIABILITY UNKNOWN, REPORTS OF EXPLOSIONS MOUNT"
But if you look at reasons 1-7 of my possible explanaitions for us hearing about glocks blowing up, you will see that only 1 of those 7 is the fault of the gun itself. The rest are functions of other variables and statistics. My *guess* is that if you buy a glock, maintain it well and shoot standard ammo though it, it is no more likely to detonate than any other gun you might buy.
I agree with R6, its PROBABLY a function of the fact that Glocks account for so much of the US 'high use' marketshare that we're gonna hear about them blowing up a fair amount. here, think about this:
Lets say we take 2 gun types, Glock and H&K pistols. Lets say we magically 'know' that their reliability is exactly the same...neither one is more likely to KB than the other. We then look at all of the pistols in use and we discover that 25% of them are H&K and 75% of them are Glock. Given these facts, we would expect to see 3 times as many Glock KBs as H&K KBs...since there are 3 times as many glocks in use.
We confuse the RATE of KBs with the actual OCCURANCES of KBs. What we hear from a KB report is an occurance...it gives us no information on the rate. And the RATE is what someone is questioning when they ask if the gun is more likley to blow up on them.
Now, those numbers I used are fake, but the same idea holds true with reality. Glocks account for a majormajormajor portion of the LEO marketshare. LEO guns are fired often. LEOs are notorious for not always being extraspecialcareful about maintaining their guns (sad but true). LEO kabooms, I bet, are also more likely to be reported, seeing as how if you're a cop and your duty gun KBs, you kinda gotta tell someone to get a new one. And the agency sure as HECK is gonna let Glock know.
Does all of this mean that the glocks are NOT at fault? No. There could be an underlying problem with the gun. But it certainly is by no means proven by the high number of KBs we hear about.
Mike
PS and no, I'm not an acolyte of the church of glock. I don't own one, and probably never will. I don't like their feel. *shrug*
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
My point is that we don't know. Now, that sounds all kinds of ominous and sinister...like some stupid newspaper headline: "GLOCK RELIABILITY UNKNOWN, REPORTS OF EXPLOSIONS MOUNT"
But if you look at reasons 1-7 of my possible explanaitions for us hearing about glocks blowing up, you will see that only 1 of those 7 is the fault of the gun itself. The rest are functions of other variables and statistics. My *guess* is that if you buy a glock, maintain it well and shoot standard ammo though it, it is no more likely to detonate than any other gun you might buy.
I agree with R6, its PROBABLY a function of the fact that Glocks account for so much of the US 'high use' marketshare that we're gonna hear about them blowing up a fair amount. here, think about this:
Lets say we take 2 gun types, Glock and H&K pistols. Lets say we magically 'know' that their reliability is exactly the same...neither one is more likely to KB than the other. We then look at all of the pistols in use and we discover that 25% of them are H&K and 75% of them are Glock. Given these facts, we would expect to see 3 times as many Glock KBs as H&K KBs...since there are 3 times as many glocks in use.
We confuse the RATE of KBs with the actual OCCURANCES of KBs. What we hear from a KB report is an occurance...it gives us no information on the rate. And the RATE is what someone is questioning when they ask if the gun is more likley to blow up on them.
Now, those numbers I used are fake, but the same idea holds true with reality. Glocks account for a majormajormajor portion of the LEO marketshare. LEO guns are fired often. LEOs are notorious for not always being extraspecialcareful about maintaining their guns (sad but true). LEO kabooms, I bet, are also more likely to be reported, seeing as how if you're a cop and your duty gun KBs, you kinda gotta tell someone to get a new one. And the agency sure as HECK is gonna let Glock know.
Does all of this mean that the glocks are NOT at fault? No. There could be an underlying problem with the gun. But it certainly is by no means proven by the high number of KBs we hear about.
Mike
PS and no, I'm not an acolyte of the church of glock. I don't own one, and probably never will. I don't like their feel. *shrug*
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
David Berkowitz
New member
The way I get it, it is only a certain line of the Glocks, .40 S&W in particular, that have this problem and only under certain conditions.
I think the problem started right at the begining of the 40S&W movement. you must remember that Glock actually beat Smith & Wesson in getting the guns to market and Federal was the first manufacturer of the ammo.
Some runs of the Federal had weak case walls. The Glock has only a partially support firing chamber to aid in mechanical reliablity. Combining weak walls and non-fully suported chambers equals a big kB. This problem has long since been rectified by Federal and in fact, they make some of the finest ammo available.
Also, the 40S&W does create some high chamber pressures. If the shooter shoots a lot of LEAD reloads and does not clean the barrel frequently and WELL, lead build up will occur on the rifling and this can lead to pressure build and another kB.
Best solutions - change barrels to a fully supported one, shoot only new ammo, shoot reloads with only jacketed bullets (still not recommended by Glock and others).
I think the problem started right at the begining of the 40S&W movement. you must remember that Glock actually beat Smith & Wesson in getting the guns to market and Federal was the first manufacturer of the ammo.
Some runs of the Federal had weak case walls. The Glock has only a partially support firing chamber to aid in mechanical reliablity. Combining weak walls and non-fully suported chambers equals a big kB. This problem has long since been rectified by Federal and in fact, they make some of the finest ammo available.
Also, the 40S&W does create some high chamber pressures. If the shooter shoots a lot of LEAD reloads and does not clean the barrel frequently and WELL, lead build up will occur on the rifling and this can lead to pressure build and another kB.
Best solutions - change barrels to a fully supported one, shoot only new ammo, shoot reloads with only jacketed bullets (still not recommended by Glock and others).
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Will Beararms:
I know of a Glock 21 glabooming with reloads and a Glock 17 glabooming with reloads. The .40 S&W is supposedly the most prone to this due to the fact that the chamber is unsupported in the six o'clock position meaning the shell casing is exposed on the end.
I have shot a Glock 22 thousands of times with reloads and had no problems. Nevertheless, if you count up all of the kabooms on record, Glocks lead the tally by far. I will get flamed for this but the numbers don't lie.
[/quote]
Numbers might not lie, but statistics do, and your seem to be a case in point. FWIW, the 9mm glocks were never considered to be any kind of a problem, and anyone that blows up a 9mm Glock has most likely done something very stupid. The .45ACP Glocks also are no more prone to such incidents than any other .45ACP. My .45ACP Glocks have at least as much chamber support as my 1911 pistols. Coupled with the fact that the .45ACP is a low pressure round, and this just isn't a problem unless you do something stupid. Finally, you mention reloads in both cases. I've seen Ruger Blackhawk revolvers blown up by bad reloads, and they're reputedly one of the strongest revolvers made. Does that prove that they're prone to blow-ups? No, it proves that some people can screw up anything, given enough time.
You also have to consider how many Glocks are in circulation, far more than most other similar pistols. It stands to reason that you'd hear more stories about Glock problems, since there are so many more in use.
I know of a Glock 21 glabooming with reloads and a Glock 17 glabooming with reloads. The .40 S&W is supposedly the most prone to this due to the fact that the chamber is unsupported in the six o'clock position meaning the shell casing is exposed on the end.
I have shot a Glock 22 thousands of times with reloads and had no problems. Nevertheless, if you count up all of the kabooms on record, Glocks lead the tally by far. I will get flamed for this but the numbers don't lie.
[/quote]
Numbers might not lie, but statistics do, and your seem to be a case in point. FWIW, the 9mm glocks were never considered to be any kind of a problem, and anyone that blows up a 9mm Glock has most likely done something very stupid. The .45ACP Glocks also are no more prone to such incidents than any other .45ACP. My .45ACP Glocks have at least as much chamber support as my 1911 pistols. Coupled with the fact that the .45ACP is a low pressure round, and this just isn't a problem unless you do something stupid. Finally, you mention reloads in both cases. I've seen Ruger Blackhawk revolvers blown up by bad reloads, and they're reputedly one of the strongest revolvers made. Does that prove that they're prone to blow-ups? No, it proves that some people can screw up anything, given enough time.
You also have to consider how many Glocks are in circulation, far more than most other similar pistols. It stands to reason that you'd hear more stories about Glock problems, since there are so many more in use.
If you want a Glock by all means get one. If it balances right, feels good in your hand and points naturally for you the chances of having a Kb are slim to none. Check www.glocktalk.com for other opinions.
I don't like them, but that certainly doesn't mean they're not fine pistols.
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So many pistols, so little money.
I don't like them, but that certainly doesn't mean they're not fine pistols.
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So many pistols, so little money.
Sorry, forgot to mention, even if a glock explodes, they have designed the gun to contain its parts, so users usually only end up with a bruised hand, so it isnt' that dangerous, and glock has an excellent warranty.
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454Casull when it absolutely Has to be destroyed.
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454Casull when it absolutely Has to be destroyed.