Willie Lowman
New member
Well it's not an issue anymore. I sold it to a friend.
...So now I'll put a light on a different pistol.
...So now I'll put a light on a different pistol.
Glocks and flashlights
- Thread starter Willie Lowman
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Captains1911
New member
You probably need a better imagination then. Or, take a low light defensive pistol class.
You don't have to point a light at what you want to illuminate. Point it at the ground and the splash will work just fine. People really should try this before posting otherwise.
To answer the OP's question about malfunctions it had to do with the recoil spring being affected by the light mounted. I'd see this in person with my depts firearms but to my knowledge it has been corrected in the recent generation pistols.
To answer the OP's question about malfunctions it had to do with the recoil spring being affected by the light mounted. I'd see this in person with my depts firearms but to my knowledge it has been corrected in the recent generation pistols.
corneileous
New member
I guess it could be an acquired skill for some people, learning to points a flashlight at the ground when we really want in the back of our minds to point it at the area of the recliner over on the other end of the room that we’re looking at like we normally would.
I dunno, there’s pros and cons to weapon-mounted flash lights just like there is between open carry and conceal carry so it’s really all about what you want to do.
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corneileous
New member
OK, as long as folks want to discuss whether to even buy/use a weapon-mounted-light, the OP, hopefully, has received his answer to make his own decision. Whether anyone else's G23gen5 works with a particular weaponlight or not, the OP will need to verify specifically with his own Glock, light, and ammo by shooting it for himself.
Some points I remember from low-light-weapon-light-training. In LE where I worked, we had both an AR-15 and a Glock 17 Gen4 available or issued to us:
-the gun w/light is not a stand-alone-flashlight. Don't be pointing the gun at anything/anybody at which you wouldn't "normally" be pointing the firearm.
-have a stand-alone flashlight for when just a flashlight is needed. One example was: Don't be drawing your firearm w/light just to look at someone getting his/her vehicle registration out of the glovebox.
-as already mentioned, much can be seen using indirect light (not pointing a gun and light directly at a person if unnecessary to do so).
-using the weapon-mounted-light is optional. Use it or don't, but do have that stand-alone handheld flashlight, as in the old days.
-everybody was more accurate when shooting with the weaponlight.
-once shots are fired, there can be much gunsmoke in the air, obscuring vision and making it difficult to see a suspect's hands.
-brighter lights generally worked better in most/all situations. At the time, we either used Surefire X300, X300U, Streamlight TLR-1, or TLR-1HL lights. The minimum department requirement was 80 lumens (nobody bought or used those); the maximum at the time from the manufacturers, as I recall, were up to 800 lumens. I think 1000 lumens are now being advertised/sold (I haven't studied the Surefire or Streamlight data lately, however).
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Outside of LE work, things can differ. I totally understand the technique of hunkering down in a relatively safe spot in a house and waiting for a threat to leave or LE to arrive (if 911 can even be called).
In LE, we didn't always have the time or patience just to wait for a potential threat to leave the area; make noise; or appear by verbal command. Often, but not always, a citizen expects an area/building to be searched and verified as safe, as do we.
Now retired or when off-duty, I didn't or don't usually carry my handguns with a weaponlight as it makes for a large package and I'd have to buy more holsters. I do have a couple of handguns left with weaponlights in holsters ready-to-go. I just seldom carry/use them (a G34gen4 and a Guncrafter Industries railed 1911). Three of my four shotguns have lights as do both of my AR-15s, too.
Without mounted weaponlights, there are still the older-school techniques of wielding a handheld flashlight aloneg with one's chosen firearm.
Some points I remember from low-light-weapon-light-training. In LE where I worked, we had both an AR-15 and a Glock 17 Gen4 available or issued to us:
-the gun w/light is not a stand-alone-flashlight. Don't be pointing the gun at anything/anybody at which you wouldn't "normally" be pointing the firearm.
-have a stand-alone flashlight for when just a flashlight is needed. One example was: Don't be drawing your firearm w/light just to look at someone getting his/her vehicle registration out of the glovebox.
-as already mentioned, much can be seen using indirect light (not pointing a gun and light directly at a person if unnecessary to do so).
-using the weapon-mounted-light is optional. Use it or don't, but do have that stand-alone handheld flashlight, as in the old days.
-everybody was more accurate when shooting with the weaponlight.
-once shots are fired, there can be much gunsmoke in the air, obscuring vision and making it difficult to see a suspect's hands.
-brighter lights generally worked better in most/all situations. At the time, we either used Surefire X300, X300U, Streamlight TLR-1, or TLR-1HL lights. The minimum department requirement was 80 lumens (nobody bought or used those); the maximum at the time from the manufacturers, as I recall, were up to 800 lumens. I think 1000 lumens are now being advertised/sold (I haven't studied the Surefire or Streamlight data lately, however).
----
Outside of LE work, things can differ. I totally understand the technique of hunkering down in a relatively safe spot in a house and waiting for a threat to leave or LE to arrive (if 911 can even be called).
In LE, we didn't always have the time or patience just to wait for a potential threat to leave the area; make noise; or appear by verbal command. Often, but not always, a citizen expects an area/building to be searched and verified as safe, as do we.
Now retired or when off-duty, I didn't or don't usually carry my handguns with a weaponlight as it makes for a large package and I'd have to buy more holsters. I do have a couple of handguns left with weaponlights in holsters ready-to-go. I just seldom carry/use them (a G34gen4 and a Guncrafter Industries railed 1911). Three of my four shotguns have lights as do both of my AR-15s, too.
Without mounted weaponlights, there are still the older-school techniques of wielding a handheld flashlight aloneg with one's chosen firearm.
I've been a police officer for 21 years. I've never had any issues with the light effecting my Glock in terms of functioning. I started carrying a light on my Glock 19 back in 2015. I now carry a Glock 45 and the light is still there. I also carry a flashlight on my person for those times (which outnumber the times when I need to draw my pistol) when I need a light, but not a gun.
I resisted carrying a light, but after I transitioned it didn't take me long to see the advantages of a weapon mounted light in law enforcement.
FIRST POINT: More than once I've have had clear a building in the middle of the night. Some buildings are very large and after twenty or thirty minutes of carrying a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in another things start to get fatigued. I know that sounds absurd, what with today's lightweight materials and ultra powerful mini-flashlights. However it's true. Perhaps it is a combination of having to move tactically (slow and precise) and the stress of the unknown. Reviewing various back issues of gun publications I notice that the tactical gurus of the 90s and early 2000s discuss lights and techniques, but don't talk about the fatigue factor. Interesting. You spend an hour (or more) clearing a large multi-story building and you will really appreciate that weapon light.
SECOND POINT: During the clearing of a building once in awhile we've (I and my fellow officers) have actually come across somebody who shouldn't be there and needs to be handcuffed. There is nothing more fun than having to re-holster one's pistol, secure the flashlight and then pull out the handcuffs. Yes I know there should be a designated handcuffer and another officer on cover, but the designated handcuff officer isn't walking around with the pistol in the holster during the building search. A weapon light is just nice. In a pinch one can have a free hand while still holding onto one's pistol or just focus on re-holstering one item instead of two in a stressful situation.
That's my experience with a weapon light. Like anything it's a tool not a magic bullet. If not used properly it can be a real problem and it isn't the answer for everything. But it does have it's advantages.
I resisted carrying a light, but after I transitioned it didn't take me long to see the advantages of a weapon mounted light in law enforcement.
FIRST POINT: More than once I've have had clear a building in the middle of the night. Some buildings are very large and after twenty or thirty minutes of carrying a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in another things start to get fatigued. I know that sounds absurd, what with today's lightweight materials and ultra powerful mini-flashlights. However it's true. Perhaps it is a combination of having to move tactically (slow and precise) and the stress of the unknown. Reviewing various back issues of gun publications I notice that the tactical gurus of the 90s and early 2000s discuss lights and techniques, but don't talk about the fatigue factor. Interesting. You spend an hour (or more) clearing a large multi-story building and you will really appreciate that weapon light.
SECOND POINT: During the clearing of a building once in awhile we've (I and my fellow officers) have actually come across somebody who shouldn't be there and needs to be handcuffed. There is nothing more fun than having to re-holster one's pistol, secure the flashlight and then pull out the handcuffs. Yes I know there should be a designated handcuffer and another officer on cover, but the designated handcuff officer isn't walking around with the pistol in the holster during the building search. A weapon light is just nice. In a pinch one can have a free hand while still holding onto one's pistol or just focus on re-holstering one item instead of two in a stressful situation.
That's my experience with a weapon light. Like anything it's a tool not a magic bullet. If not used properly it can be a real problem and it isn't the answer for everything. But it does have it's advantages.
Carry pistol, Glock 19. Never had time for weapon-mounted lights. Sure-Fire flashlight in a holster next to G17 spare magazine, on the left side.It shouldn't cause problems with the function of the gun, or at least not with a metal framed one. Can't say about the poly guns, they seem to have different rules.
What bothers me, and where I think you are setting up for potential problems is mounting the light on your pistol. I realize "everyone" is doing it these days,and the guns come made to do that, I just think its a poor idea, particularly for someone who does not carry the gun professionally.
And even the professionals, who get, and are required to pass training don't always follow it. Just look at the news.
TO me, its in the same class of dangerous foolishness as using a scoped rifle instead of binoculars. You are pointing a loaded gun at what you are looking at.
Everyone says "I'd never do that"...and of course, we're all completely safe all the time, but I think, if you're human, and not rigorously trained (and perhaps even if you are) at some point you are going to do it.
Its all good, until someone gets "accidentally" shot, and maybe killed...
Also, consider the legal aspects, if you're not a cop, shining a light attached to a gun on someone IS pointing a gun at them (don't care what you SAY) and that can be a legal threat, can be a level of assault, or brandishing and leave you open to charges.
Assuming you don't run across one of the folks (some of whom are cops) that figure someone pointing a gun at them is a deadly threat and they shoot you!
I've heard all the arguments, I know the pros and cons, and I think a light NOT on the gun is ok, and a very good idea, but a light ON the gun is a risk and a problem in waiting. MAYBE it never happens to you, hopefully not. But, if it ever does, who is really at fault? I'd say its the guy with the light on his gun.
Just my opinion, and worth what you paid for it,
Need very bright light? I have one. Need a pistol, I have one of those as well.
corneileous
New member
That’s usually the general idea why a weapon-mounted flashlight is a bad idea but then again, using the light intermittently will lessen your flashlight of being a target.
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ChuteTheMall
New member
I find it annoying when someone merely points a flashlight at me,
but it's a deadly threat if that flashlight is attached to a gun.
but it's a deadly threat if that flashlight is attached to a gun.
I think I remember hearing long ago that another advantage to having a light on your weapon was the fact that it stuck out past the barrel a little. In a struggle, if you had to press your muzzle against an assailant, could possibly push the slide out of battery, but with a mounted light that extends past the muzzle, helps eliminate that potential failure.
Either way, I dont have mounted lights, I prefer handheld.
Either way, I dont have mounted lights, I prefer handheld.
corneileous
New member
Good point I guess, but in reality, I wonder just how much of a possibility that would be. Hopefully you would have fired a few shots off before an intruder/attacker got that close to you.
Me too but it all pretty much just boils down to what poison you want to pick. Weapon mounted frees up your other hand and allows you to hold onto your gin with both hands but at the same time, you’re right directly behind that light that makes a great target to shoot at but at least as was previously said, you can still use the light momentarily to not give away your position as much and even though your light is attacked to your gun, you can still shine light on things without necessarily having to point your gun at whatever you’re trying to illuminate.
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Many of the handheld pistol techniques result in the same situation. The Harries hold, the Rogers hold, and some others. You’re bringing the hand holding the light in contact with the pistol to gain some additional control when shooting. The only ones that don’t are the FBI hold and modified versions of that hold. However, with the FBI hold you’re now aiming a light in one hand held as far away from the body as possible (if you really want to get the light away from your body) and a pistol in the other hand. You have two different things to aim simultaneously. Now the light doesn’t need to be as finely aimed as a pistol, but having doing this in low light courses it’s nontrivial. You’re also taking up a fair amount of space physically and if your light arm is near a wall or you’re in a doorway your ability to actually move that light away from your body isn’t great.
I’m not opposed to the FBI technique entirely, I’m just pointing out that it has its own negatives. Certainly training and practice can help, and that’s true of all of the techniques.
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If this sounds like a good idea, it needs to be practiced. The natural impluse is to just hold the light out to the side, or up and out, but it also need to be held forward of the body as well or the sideshine will illuminate the person holding the light.
I found that I was pretty good at holding the light out away from my body, but when I started trying to remember to also hold it far enough forward to keep from illuminating myself with sideshine, I had trouble with the light drifting backwards. Maybe it's easy for other folks, and I'm sure that if I practiced it a lot I would get good at it. It's just something to be aware of.
Low light shooting is not crazy difficult or anything, but I guarantee that anyone who has never done any will learn a lot from just a relatively small amount of actual live-fire low-light practice. Getting some formal training is even better.
JohnKSa said:
This is a good point. The spill of the beam can work against you.
There's a lot you can practice in your own home with a cleared pistol. You can do thinks like try the different handheld techniques, check whether or not the spill of a weapon light from low or high ready is enough to allow for positive identification, etc. Doing it in the layout of your own home also has its advantages in terms of simply having an idea of what the lighting conditions are in your home and how the light you use works for that environment (does your light illuminate well enough for the space, what areas in your home can cause reflections, etc).
That said, as John suggested what you experience in a static position without recoil isn't always indicative of what you experience under live fire (for instance, I like the Rogers technique in theory, but once I start shooting I can't keep my handheld light activated against my palm as the tailcap on my light is fenced). I've down two lowlight pistol courses and one lowlight rifle course. Both were very educational. If that's not an option a number of indoor ranges offer lowlight nights to give you a chance to see how your gear and techniques work out in practice.
I would imagine it was corrected years ago, because I've heard no complaints about weapon lights on Glocks causing malfunctions since I can't remember when.
FWIW though, back when pistols with rails and weapon lights started to be a thing in LE, we did test a Glock 22 and Glock 35 with and without weapon lights. Both Glocks were proven reliable guns, in very good used condition. Attaching a weapon light to either immediately caused malfunctions. Removing the light immediately restored the previous reliability. At the time, we couldn't figure it out. We later viewed a slow motion video of a Glock with weapon light firing. It appeared that the dust cover was flexing upward with each shot, such that it rubbed on the bottom of the slide as it cycled. I'm not an engineer, and can't really explain the dynamics involved, but the flexing was apparently affecting function enough to cause the malfunctions we experienced...
BTW, During the last third of my career in LE, more and more officers were carrying pistols with weapon mounted lights. I never did, but did always carry two flashlights whether working day or night shift. But were I starting over, I'd be carrying a pistol with a WML too.
FWIW though, back when pistols with rails and weapon lights started to be a thing in LE, we did test a Glock 22 and Glock 35 with and without weapon lights. Both Glocks were proven reliable guns, in very good used condition. Attaching a weapon light to either immediately caused malfunctions. Removing the light immediately restored the previous reliability. At the time, we couldn't figure it out. We later viewed a slow motion video of a Glock with weapon light firing. It appeared that the dust cover was flexing upward with each shot, such that it rubbed on the bottom of the slide as it cycled. I'm not an engineer, and can't really explain the dynamics involved, but the flexing was apparently affecting function enough to cause the malfunctions we experienced...
BTW, During the last third of my career in LE, more and more officers were carrying pistols with weapon mounted lights. I never did, but did always carry two flashlights whether working day or night shift. But were I starting over, I'd be carrying a pistol with a WML too.
The dust cover flexes during firing even without a light attached. I don't have side-by-side comparison footage and I can't decide whether the additional weight will result in stabilizing the dustcover during firing, or put stress on it and cause it to flex more.
The fix for the issue was to install a magazine spring that's stronger than the stock spring. The idea is that the stronger spring will push the next round up a bit faster so it's in place to be fed into the chamber when the slide comes back forward to strip it from the magazine. That suggests that the problem is the slide moving faster in the guns with the lights installed, rather than slower, but I haven't ever seen a detailed breakdown of how Glock arrived on the magazine spring fix.