Glock
- Thread starter Steel
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J. ParkerGlocks 3 safeties, firing pin/ trigger/ drop, are all sequentially disengaged as the trigger is pulled, and automatically re-set as the trigger re-sets.
I use the NY one trigger module on my Glocks, not necssasarily for added safety of the heavier pull, though it's a plus, but I actually prefer the pull it offers. The main difference between the Glock, even w/ the NY 1 (8lb) or NY 2 (12lb) & say a DAO Beretta is the length of the trigger travel to discharge.
With the Beretta, the trigger will travel approx. a full inch before discharge, almost all the way to the rear of the trigger gaurd. On a Kahr K9 the 71b pull is actually less than my Glock, but again, the travel to discharge is approx. one full inch. Glocks's is 0.5in.
That's the main difference to me as far as Glock triggers vs. DA revolvers, DAO pistols ect... I don't pretend to fully understand the functional purpose of the trigger bar safety, it would seem if you snag the trigger on something or otherwise depress the trigger that it is going backwards w/ the trigger itself regardless.
I feel Glocks are just as safe as the other designs mentioned, the things I personally would suggest people remember is keep your finger of the trigger & remember that Glocks trigger travel to discharge is approx. half that of most other designs. As a side note I also think the NY triggers heavier pull would seem to do more if the trigger were snagged than the trigger safety itself.
Best, long shot!
I use the NY one trigger module on my Glocks, not necssasarily for added safety of the heavier pull, though it's a plus, but I actually prefer the pull it offers. The main difference between the Glock, even w/ the NY 1 (8lb) or NY 2 (12lb) & say a DAO Beretta is the length of the trigger travel to discharge.
With the Beretta, the trigger will travel approx. a full inch before discharge, almost all the way to the rear of the trigger gaurd. On a Kahr K9 the 71b pull is actually less than my Glock, but again, the travel to discharge is approx. one full inch. Glocks's is 0.5in.
That's the main difference to me as far as Glock triggers vs. DA revolvers, DAO pistols ect... I don't pretend to fully understand the functional purpose of the trigger bar safety, it would seem if you snag the trigger on something or otherwise depress the trigger that it is going backwards w/ the trigger itself regardless.
I feel Glocks are just as safe as the other designs mentioned, the things I personally would suggest people remember is keep your finger of the trigger & remember that Glocks trigger travel to discharge is approx. half that of most other designs. As a side note I also think the NY triggers heavier pull would seem to do more if the trigger were snagged than the trigger safety itself.
Best, long shot!
The Glock design is certainly no more unsafe than other designs. While it is possible to trip the Glock trigger accidentally if one is careless, the same could be said about another other semi-auto pistol. I cringe to recall my cocked-and-locked Colt Series 70 safety having been accidentally swiped off. Fortunately, I caught the error before an ND occurred. Glocks are just as safe as its operator.
45automan, I am an insurance claims adjuster and can swear by the fact that cars DO just drive off by themselves, and catch on fire by themselves, and pop in/out of gear by themselves.
Or, at least that's what all my customers tell me
Sorry, this is not related to this post, just couldn't help it. Although, I do feel my G21 is as safe as I make it.
Or, at least that's what all my customers tell me
Sorry, this is not related to this post, just couldn't help it. Although, I do feel my G21 is as safe as I make it.Guys,
Glocks are not as safe as most other serious handgun designs. The problem is that the standard trigger pull is light and the trigger travel is short. This is poor saftey engineering. The gun can be accidently set off with less pressure than other designs. It is not a coincidence that Glock insists on rigid holsters for their firearms.
Glocks are not like revolvers. Revolvers have 10-12 pound trigger weights. Glocks have roughly 5.5 pound trigger weights. Notice it takes twice as much effort to fire a revolver as a Glock.
Despite claims to the contrary, the Glock is an extremely poor choice for the novice. It requires far more attention to saftey than a SA or DA/SA. With training, these other designs are made safe by routines that become second nature. While "keeping your finger off the trigger" is good advice for any gun--it is not enough. No one would keep their SIG cocked and unlocked--not even if they planned to "keep their finger off the trigger."
GHB
[Edited by Greg Bell on 01-24-2001 at 10:32 AM]
Glocks are not as safe as most other serious handgun designs. The problem is that the standard trigger pull is light and the trigger travel is short. This is poor saftey engineering. The gun can be accidently set off with less pressure than other designs. It is not a coincidence that Glock insists on rigid holsters for their firearms.
Glocks are not like revolvers. Revolvers have 10-12 pound trigger weights. Glocks have roughly 5.5 pound trigger weights. Notice it takes twice as much effort to fire a revolver as a Glock.
Despite claims to the contrary, the Glock is an extremely poor choice for the novice. It requires far more attention to saftey than a SA or DA/SA. With training, these other designs are made safe by routines that become second nature. While "keeping your finger off the trigger" is good advice for any gun--it is not enough. No one would keep their SIG cocked and unlocked--not even if they planned to "keep their finger off the trigger."
GHB
[Edited by Greg Bell on 01-24-2001 at 10:32 AM]
Why are Glocks a poor choice?
Actually Glocks are an ideal choice in semiautos for novices. With DA/SA autos you need to remember to make them safe. This usually means you've got to activate a lever of some kind. With Glocks once the slide is activated the pistol is loaded, no levers or anything else to fuss with. Keep the finger off the trigger and you're good to go. DAO autos are an attempt to emulate Glock's simplicity, and if you hate Glocks and want a simple manual of arms a DAO may be the right option. To call them unsafe because they "lack" an external safety shows a poor understanding of Glock's three safeties.
Actually Glocks are an ideal choice in semiautos for novices. With DA/SA autos you need to remember to make them safe. This usually means you've got to activate a lever of some kind. With Glocks once the slide is activated the pistol is loaded, no levers or anything else to fuss with. Keep the finger off the trigger and you're good to go. DAO autos are an attempt to emulate Glock's simplicity, and if you hate Glocks and want a simple manual of arms a DAO may be the right option. To call them unsafe because they "lack" an external safety shows a poor understanding of Glock's three safeties.
cuerno de chivo
Moderator
baloney
Glocks are simple. Pull trigger bang. It has an excellent safety system. You don't pull the trigger; it won't go off. Perfect novice weapon behind a revolver. Much easier to figure out and become comfortable with than a SA (the first pistol that I used as a novice). No very complicated and unsafe uncocking procedure to use as a traditional DA.
Glocks are simple. Pull trigger bang. It has an excellent safety system. You don't pull the trigger; it won't go off. Perfect novice weapon behind a revolver. Much easier to figure out and become comfortable with than a SA (the first pistol that I used as a novice). No very complicated and unsafe uncocking procedure to use as a traditional DA.
I always considered the Glock safety to be for holstering the weapon. Guns can only be so safe and still function. The points used in this thread as negatives would be considered positives in other threads. Several people posted that the relativly light Glock trigger makes it unsafe while thousands of gun owners are paying big bucks to achieve that very thing. I personally feel that keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to fire is really just that simple. That is one of the golden rules of gun handling. That was taught to me at my father's knee. Glock appearently understands this and not the victim mentality that it is the gun that caused the accident. Maybe Glocks arn't for everyone. If you don't think you can handle the responsiblility of safe gun handling I can suggest an alternative. Take a 1911 and have someone else unload it. Leave the magazine out and an empty chamber indicator in. Apply the thumb safety. While being careful not to depress the grip safety insert a trigger lock. Take the trigger lock key and throw it out of a boat in the middle of the lake. This doesn't function well as a gun, but it makes a great sinker for fall trout.
Since "Keep your finger off the trigger" is all that is needed, why does Glock disapprove of 3.5LB triggers for carry? Perhaps they have fallen prey to the dreaded "victim mentality?" Or, more likely, they realize that "keep your finger off the trigger" isn't always enough.
The famous 3 safeties of the "safe action system" are almost totally irrelevant to this issue. What deactivates these three systems that supposedly make the gun's trigger less of an issue? Pulling the trigger is what deactivates these safeties. Only system 1, better known as "the trigger doo-hickey," in any way relates to this issue. Judging from this discussion it is difficult even for fans of the Glock to create scenarios where this safety is useful.
I disagree that the Glock is appropriate for novices. Sure it is easy to shoot. A cocked 1911 with thumb and grip safeties deactivated would also be easy to shoot. Why not try this? Because it would be idiotic.
[Edited by Greg Bell on 01-24-2001 at 12:21 AM]
The famous 3 safeties of the "safe action system" are almost totally irrelevant to this issue. What deactivates these three systems that supposedly make the gun's trigger less of an issue? Pulling the trigger is what deactivates these safeties. Only system 1, better known as "the trigger doo-hickey," in any way relates to this issue. Judging from this discussion it is difficult even for fans of the Glock to create scenarios where this safety is useful.
I disagree that the Glock is appropriate for novices. Sure it is easy to shoot. A cocked 1911 with thumb and grip safeties deactivated would also be easy to shoot. Why not try this? Because it would be idiotic.
[Edited by Greg Bell on 01-24-2001 at 12:21 AM]
?
"Any car can explode if crashed. Nevertheless, car makers find it helpful not to mount gas tanks on bumpers. Perhaps not suprising is the fact that the Ford Pinto was one of the best selling cars of the 70s. "
What did I miss?
Glock doesn't offer 3.5 trigger on carry guns because of the hysterial lawsuit society we live in. I just heard the other day that again MD's is being sued for someone getting burned with their hot coffee. So now MD's is responsible if some idiot burns himself with coffee? No wonder companies are racing to CYA.
If you don't like Glocks there are plenty of other excellent designs out there. Just make sure not to blame the design or company for the incompetence of people.
"Any car can explode if crashed. Nevertheless, car makers find it helpful not to mount gas tanks on bumpers. Perhaps not suprising is the fact that the Ford Pinto was one of the best selling cars of the 70s. "
What did I miss?
Glock doesn't offer 3.5 trigger on carry guns because of the hysterial lawsuit society we live in. I just heard the other day that again MD's is being sued for someone getting burned with their hot coffee. So now MD's is responsible if some idiot burns himself with coffee? No wonder companies are racing to CYA.
If you don't like Glocks there are plenty of other excellent designs out there. Just make sure not to blame the design or company for the incompetence of people.
Greg Bell,
Your latest mantra of "Why does Glock not recommend the 3.5# connector for carry guns?" requires an answer.
For the same reason that SA wheelguns and 1911's with superlight match triggers make lousy carry guns: it's too easy to accidentally trip the trigger while covering a threat that may have surrendered or may have turned out to be a family member stumbling home in the dark. There's a place for lightweight triggers, it's called the range.
Your latest mantra of "Why does Glock not recommend the 3.5# connector for carry guns?" requires an answer.
For the same reason that SA wheelguns and 1911's with superlight match triggers make lousy carry guns: it's too easy to accidentally trip the trigger while covering a threat that may have surrendered or may have turned out to be a family member stumbling home in the dark. There's a place for lightweight triggers, it's called the range.
Mr. Bell,
I'm a little confused with your comment regarding Glock not approving 3.5 triggers for carry guns.
I have seen the Model 34/35 advertized as Glock's "Practical-Tactical"...a gun of choice for SWAT type folks who I believe carry their guns with them when in action. I've heard that some use a thigh rig of some kind or another. This would suggest that carrying a Glock with a 3.5lb trigger is "authorized" by Glock. I think this would negate the "carry not authorized by Glock" argument.
I might add, I agree with Tamara that the best place for a soft touch trigger is at the range.
Have a good evening.
I'm a little confused with your comment regarding Glock not approving 3.5 triggers for carry guns.
I have seen the Model 34/35 advertized as Glock's "Practical-Tactical"...a gun of choice for SWAT type folks who I believe carry their guns with them when in action. I've heard that some use a thigh rig of some kind or another. This would suggest that carrying a Glock with a 3.5lb trigger is "authorized" by Glock. I think this would negate the "carry not authorized by Glock" argument.
I might add, I agree with Tamara that the best place for a soft touch trigger is at the range.
Have a good evening.
Tamara,
My argument is that the Glock, in standard form, has too light a trigger pull for the gun to be safe in non-expert hands. My point about Glock disapproving of light triggers was in response to the "keep your finger off the trigger" mantra. Some people repeat this slogan as if it ends the issue. It does not. If "keeping your finger off the trigger" were enough target weight triggers would be standard on all guns. I believe that "keeping your finger off the trigger," is excellent advice--for all guns (until you need to make a hole).
Since the days of the 17L Glock has frowned upon the use its 3.5 pound trigger in carry weapons. This is because they realized that this trigger weight would result in more unintended discharges. Another way of putting this might be that "Glocks are perfection, people are not. "
What I am arguing, and certainly thoughtful people can disagree, is that the Glock design is less safe than other serious handgun designs. I do not mean to say that the Glock is unsafe--a completely different thing all together.
GHB
My argument is that the Glock, in standard form, has too light a trigger pull for the gun to be safe in non-expert hands. My point about Glock disapproving of light triggers was in response to the "keep your finger off the trigger" mantra. Some people repeat this slogan as if it ends the issue. It does not. If "keeping your finger off the trigger" were enough target weight triggers would be standard on all guns. I believe that "keeping your finger off the trigger," is excellent advice--for all guns (until you need to make a hole).
Since the days of the 17L Glock has frowned upon the use its 3.5 pound trigger in carry weapons. This is because they realized that this trigger weight would result in more unintended discharges. Another way of putting this might be that "Glocks are perfection, people are not. "
What I am arguing, and certainly thoughtful people can disagree, is that the Glock design is less safe than other serious handgun designs. I do not mean to say that the Glock is unsafe--a completely different thing all together.
GHB
WalterGAII
Moderator
I was just the other night watching one of the "Videotaped Crime" shows on t.v. There was a jeweler right before my eyes, drawing simultaneously with a robber. The robber wound up shooting the jeweler four times, but the jeweler lived. During his interview for the show, the jeweler said that he'd gotten his pistol out fast enough, but when he pulled the trigger, nothing happened, allowing the b.g. to shoot the jeweler. Problem?? No biggy; he just forgot to take the safety off.
I'd say that more training and expertise are required for those choosing to carry 1911-types with external safeties, than are required of those of us who wisely choose to carry Glocks.
This past year, I bought my daughter her first handgun, a G26. She carries in a proper holster, with a round in the chamber. If I thought that she'd be better off with some other kind of handgun, then she wouldn't be carrying a Glock. If she ever has to pull her Glock in self-defense, hopefully the fact that she won't have to worry about flipping a safety will save her life. She seems to be mature enough to understand about keeping her finger off the trigger. That's not just a "mantra". It's just good, common sense. (Which, of course, not everybody possesses.)
I'd say that more training and expertise are required for those choosing to carry 1911-types with external safeties, than are required of those of us who wisely choose to carry Glocks.
This past year, I bought my daughter her first handgun, a G26. She carries in a proper holster, with a round in the chamber. If I thought that she'd be better off with some other kind of handgun, then she wouldn't be carrying a Glock. If she ever has to pull her Glock in self-defense, hopefully the fact that she won't have to worry about flipping a safety will save her life. She seems to be mature enough to understand about keeping her finger off the trigger. That's not just a "mantra". It's just good, common sense. (Which, of course, not everybody possesses.)