Glock will be the next US Military sidearm?

We had the perfect military sidearm until a delusional bureaucrat thought it wise to go with the 9MM.
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A little history lesson.

The 38 Super was developed at the request of Law enforcement officers because they found 45 ACP lacking during the 1920's and 30's

The US military was extremely disappointed in both the 45 and 1911 at the end of WW-2. Most soldiers did not like the gun nor the 45 ACP round.

Extensive testing done by the military in 1946 proved the 9mm was the better round for what the military needed. They found zero difference in effectiveness against human threats and the 9mm round fared far better in defeating barriers. Not to mention less recoil and more ammo capacity. The only reason we didn't change to 9mm in 1946 was budget cuts after the war.

Most of what people think they know about the 45 and 1911 came from mostly fictional writings done after the war. The 45 and 1911 only survived as long as it did due to political bureaucrats who chose to believe the hyperbole rather than the facts.
 
Okay. Who or what company has the ability to be able to handle a & 1.2 Billion
deal???

CarGuyChris laid it out partially. Most of the Arms Companies can handle
may the initial supply, but after that???

Our personal likes and dislikes matter zip on this. Besides, the Army has a bad habit of taking forever to make up its mind.
 
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This topic comes up every few months. There is no answer currently. This competition could well be canceled similar to the Joint Combat Pistol program. Or it could not. You'll know when you know.
 
The standard issue handgun is probably the most meaningless weapon in the US arsenal. There are 10 makes/models on the commercial market that could fill the role pretty much interchangeably. Instead of spending 5 years and $100,000,000 studying which of the 10 to adopt.....the DoD should just put names in a hat and pick at random.
 
I think we will get an answer shortly after the 21st. Trump is going to call Mike Fifer, tell him it is his patriotic duty to outfit the nations front lines against terrorism, and he can do it for $XXX. Fifer will agree, even if there isn't much profit in the contract, because the volume will set a record and the marketing fodder is worth many millions.

My prediction is no further off than anyone else's. :)
 
The M1911A1 was and is the greatest battle pistol ever devised. Hopefully with a new man in office he will re-gift our forces with this pistol. The decision to switch to 9mm NATO was the worst thing to ever happen to our military in terms of equipment. Many men have died due to the 9mm NATO's inability to stop a determined enemy with one shot. The .45 ACP has tremendously better knock down factor that will kill the target with one shot anywhere on the body. This is with ball ammo too, not hollow points.



Worst thing EVER? Many men have died? A .45 will kill a guy with one shot anywhere on the body?
LOL....is this serious?
 
Worst thing EVER? Many men have died? A .45 will kill a guy with one shot anywhere on the body?
LOL....is this serious?
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Boy when you're knee deep in dead commies with your trusty .45 being the only thing in the entire world that saved you, you'll know whether or not I'm serious. THEY AWL FAWL TUH HARDBAWL!!!!! :D :p
 
Why did S&W drop out? How is the M&P line of pistols doing? I hated their Sigma line, but I thought the M&P was much better received. I'd bet that Trump would try and buy American if possible.

The 1911 as the "ideal" pistol is a joke. Why not a nice polymer double stack .45 that is easy to disassemble and has a lot less parts to break? Don't get me wrong, I love my 1911s, but as a duty weapon that can get dirty and wet, the Glock is head and shoulders above the 1911. Less weight, better corrosion resistance, etc...
 
Glock

I think that the military may go with Glock, if it is fitted with an external safety. The military seems fixed on such things, but I have not read any spec sheet for what they are asking for in a new pistol. The g17 seems to be the new BHP for much of the world.....but I do not have any numbers to back that up. Perhaps it would be better to say it seems widely accepted in LE and military circles.

I suspect that "most soldiers" disliked the .45/1911 in WWII, 'cause they received little if any training on them and couldn't hit anything. It wouldn't make much difference if they were issued a .38 revolver or perhaps a .22. By Korea and certainly Vietnam, the .45/1911 were mostly worn out. I suspect the driving issue on the 9mm/.45 post WWII was not performance but cost and alignment with our NATO allies. The .45ACP is a distinctly U.S cartridge,the .45 subgun was on it's way out and gone by Beretta time as well.
 
I suspect that "most soldiers" disliked the .45/1911 in WWII, 'cause they received little if any training on them and couldn't hit anything. It wouldn't make much difference if they were issued a .38 revolver or perhaps a .22.
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Can't speak for "most soldiers" in this quote, but I can tell you truthfully that the guys who manned the slit trenches and bunkers with me and were my nightly companions 45 years ago were well served by the 1911; none badmouthed it, nor its caliber...none.

We understood it was a last ditch weapon, and the ability to use it where a rifle was impossible was it's real value. It was for close fighting, very close; and the biggest, heaviest slug you could punch out was (and still is in my opinion) far better than anything else. As to the ranges where they "couldn't hit anything"...those were far beyond the encounters we faced in night fighting (often in darkness where you could literally not see your hand in front of your face). For us it was 10-15 feet, at the outside and often much closer...beyond that it was M-16 work...for those close in, adrenalin packed seconds, the Army's training in the manual of arms and the limited range work was sufficient.

YMMV but the 1911 was my 'every minute of every day' companion, and the Berets that I served with would sell their souls before giving up that venerable side arm. The current M9 is bigger in all dimensions than the 1911, and fires a round that packs considerably less wallop, it was and remains, an expedient to our often missing allies. JMHO, Rod
 
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Rod,

First of all, thank you for your service. You've been there and done that compared to some of us arm chair quarterbacks. I would like to ask your opinion as to whether you (assuming it was available to you) would have chosen a high capacity Glock (pick you caliber) that is highly rust resistant and much lighter or your trusty 1911. Let's assume that the Glock was already known to be highly reliable despite being "plastic".

I believe that the veterans of WW1 and WW2 might have scoffed at the plastic fantastic AR-16/M-16 pushing that tiny .223 compared to their Enfields and Garands chambered in 30.06 and .30 carbine. There is something to be said for the large mag capacity and rapid rate of fire of the AR platform.

Tines have changed and technology has improved. Time for the military to keep up with the times, even though the pistol is a close-quarters, last ditch weapon.
 
The standard issue handgun is probably the most meaningless weapon in the US arsenal. There are 10 makes/models on the commercial market that could fill the role pretty much interchangeably. Instead of spending 5 years and $100,000,000 studying which of the 10 to adopt.....the DoD should just put names in a hat and pick at random.
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The Pentagon is literally the largest bureaucracy in the world (or at least outside of China). That completely misses the point of bureaucracy, which is to create more procedures, thus growing the bureaucracy and the power base. ;)
 
The g17 seems to be the new BHP for much of the world
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In fact a few years back, the British Ministry of Defense replaced their clapped-out BHP's, some of which dated back to 1967, with the Glock 17. I wouldn't want to mess with an unarmed British Royal Marine, then give them something that shoots ammo & then see what happens to what they are aiming at!
 
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Small point of order, gentlemen;

When you make a ridiculous tongue in cheek or sarcastic post, PLEASE use one of the Smilies to indicate that. :rolleyes:;):D, or a written "{sarcasm}" or something similar. This will help avoid wasted bandwidth replies asking "are you serious???" and such.

Also remember that the combination of factors that the military considers adequate to perform the mission, and what you and I do, are HUGELY DIFFERENT.

Also remember that .45 vs 9mm, or 1911A1 vs any/everything is not the point of this thread. If you want to go there, start your own thread.

Will GLock be our next Military pistol? Possible, I don't know, and it seems still, after years, the military doesn't know, yet.

IF the object it to provide troops with the "best" sidearm for their personal protection (and this is NOT the military's primary goal), there is a simple and "common sense" way to do it. The Military won't do it, as a matter of policy, though local exceptions are made for those "on the sharp end".

The Military will buy and issue what ever they choose. Fine. For personal protection, let the troops carry what ever personal handgun they wish. or none, if they wish. Let them decide, and be responsible for purchase, maintenance, and ammo, and packing it around.

Doing that WILL result in a number of accidents, which WILL be bad PR, but it IS the real world, and there's no free lunch. Personally, I found even the "totally outclassed" snubnose revolver to be a great comfort inside my sleeping bag, on trips to the latrine, and other times when my issue rifle was more hindering than helpful.

Glock may well become our next service pistol. They came to dominate the police market by simply meeting the requirements and pricing themselves below their competition. They might do the same to win a military contract as well. Only time will tell, and how much time is up to the military, AND politicians.
 
Wow! Didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest! I was just wondering if there was any update on whether Glock had actually been chosen, or if it's still all just rumor mill.

Keep calm and carry concealed. :cool:
 
jmr40 said:
Extensive testing done by the military in 1946 proved the 9mm was the better round for what the military needed. They found zero difference in effectiveness against human threats and the 9mm round fared far better in defeating barriers. Not to mention less recoil and more ammo capacity. The only reason we didn't change to 9mm in 1946 was budget cuts after the war.
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Yup, and an interesting historical footnote is that both the Colt Commander and the S&W Models 39 and 44 were developed in anticipation of a great big new 9mm pistol competition to replace the M1911. After the Pentagon decided that they had bigger fish to fry—specifically responding to the Soviets nuclear aggression—the project was canned, but Colt and S&W put the former two pistols into production anyway. (The S&W Model 44 was a SAO M39 variant that never entered production.)
 
Carguychris,

The Model 44 didn't reach production but it sorta, kinda did. Take a look at the bushing and other parts of the set up for the Model 52. Smith sorta, kinda re-engineered the 44 to be a 52.


Now down to serious business: I do believe some are saying Jeff Cooper was wrong or least has become outdated. Shame on all of you!!!!!! :mad: This doesn't call for a :) .
 
I think the writing is on the wall for the Glock 19, 17 or both to replace the Beretta. As for the return of old grand dad, didn't the USMC just do this and they are now not renewing the contract? I guess they got caught up in the 100th anniversary hype as well.

I'm not sure why they didn't make this move earlier. The glock is less expensive, more reliable, lighter and easier to train with than either the 1911 or the m9.

As for the 9mm cartridge. The tens if thousands of people that have been shot dead with it since 1908 would probably beg to differ that it is not a "man stopper."
 
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