Glock Perfection?????????????
- Thread starter TheFederalistWeasel
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Will Beararms
New member
TFW:
What do you expect when you post something that can only be constituted as the ultimate handgun heresy? I must advise you to seek counseling as soon as possible. Any quality range has rental Glocks that will go a long way in getting back on the path of wisdom. I advise you to take some sick days or vacation time to rest up and work through this condition. Be sure and keep us advised of your progress.
Now repeat after me: "Glock Perfection,Glock Perfection,Glock Perfection....
What do you expect when you post something that can only be constituted as the ultimate handgun heresy? I must advise you to seek counseling as soon as possible. Any quality range has rental Glocks that will go a long way in getting back on the path of wisdom. I advise you to take some sick days or vacation time to rest up and work through this condition. Be sure and keep us advised of your progress.
Now repeat after me: "Glock Perfection,Glock Perfection,Glock Perfection....
WalterGAII
Moderator
IF ignorance is bliss, then there ought to be a few real gigglers about.
Someone else may have brought this up but if I'm not horribly mistaken, TFW's initial post is a paraphrase (direct copy?) of that crappy Mother Jones "expose" on the Glock.
I just had a strange thought. I've heard for years people argue that the DA trigger isn't a problem because under stress, you won't notice the heavier trigger pull, thus allowing you to shoot it quickly. If that's the case, then the DA trigger offers absolutely no advantage (and some significant disadvantages) over the Glock. Hmmm? Makes you think, don't it?
I just had a strange thought. I've heard for years people argue that the DA trigger isn't a problem because under stress, you won't notice the heavier trigger pull, thus allowing you to shoot it quickly. If that's the case, then the DA trigger offers absolutely no advantage (and some significant disadvantages) over the Glock. Hmmm? Makes you think, don't it?
To Mal H.
I saw your posting about conduct after I had made mine. But no I won't edit my posting because it's how I feel. You need to calm down and just let everyone speak there mind even if you don't like what we have to say. Geez guy what does the H in your name stand for....Hitler? I'm sure that remark may get me booted from the firing line but that's fine. AMF.
I saw your posting about conduct after I had made mine. But no I won't edit my posting because it's how I feel. You need to calm down and just let everyone speak there mind even if you don't like what we have to say. Geez guy what does the H in your name stand for....Hitler? I'm sure that remark may get me booted from the firing line but that's fine. AMF.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Mr Nose-
The H in Mal's name stands for "Honor"; like in, "Honor your word".
From your signed agreement with TFL:
Got it, new guy?
Rich
The H in Mal's name stands for "Honor"; like in, "Honor your word".
From your signed agreement with TFL:
Got it, new guy?
Rich
Question: Does the gun work as designed? Yes? Then it's not defective.
Hmmm... how much did DC PD pay out over that same time period for vehicular accidents? Do we thus discuss the horrible nature of the Ford LTD Crown Victoria? (or whatever they drive out there)
The big beef of the first post of this really long thread seems to be that Glocks too easily do what they were designed to do. I've never owned a Glock. I'm not a huge fan. But I'll say that they do what they're designed to do, and in that light, they're good pistols.
Stating that a firearm is inherently unsafe because it does not have multifarious safeties hanging off of it that impede the ability of the shooter to fire it smacks of the marginalizing of "Gun-Control Moderates."
I've seen no reputable data on Glocks simply deciding to go off of their own accord. They all needed some human intervention to remove them from their safe state and put them into firing condition. Note in the first post that FederalistWeasal correctly states that in the unwanted shootings the "officer shot...", the "shooter" shot... This is correctly put. The pistol did not shoot those unfortunate victims; the person in charge of it did. The pistol did as it was bidden. Better training, not better design, is the solution to these tragedies.
Hmmm... how much did DC PD pay out over that same time period for vehicular accidents? Do we thus discuss the horrible nature of the Ford LTD Crown Victoria? (or whatever they drive out there)
The big beef of the first post of this really long thread seems to be that Glocks too easily do what they were designed to do. I've never owned a Glock. I'm not a huge fan. But I'll say that they do what they're designed to do, and in that light, they're good pistols.
Stating that a firearm is inherently unsafe because it does not have multifarious safeties hanging off of it that impede the ability of the shooter to fire it smacks of the marginalizing of "Gun-Control Moderates."
I've seen no reputable data on Glocks simply deciding to go off of their own accord. They all needed some human intervention to remove them from their safe state and put them into firing condition. Note in the first post that FederalistWeasal correctly states that in the unwanted shootings the "officer shot...", the "shooter" shot... This is correctly put. The pistol did not shoot those unfortunate victims; the person in charge of it did. The pistol did as it was bidden. Better training, not better design, is the solution to these tragedies.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Not a problem. I've handled it for you.
Rich Lucibella
While I don’t agree with some of the information The Federalist Weasel has included in his post because of its source. I can understand his thinking and where he was headed with this post before it was railroaded by the quick-tempered typing and lack of thinking by some.
I think one moderator says “think twice, post once”.
That being said might I offer up just a bit of insight from my experience. When I joined the US Marshals in 1995 we were just commencing the change over of our duty weapons. USMS issued the Sig 228, which most Deputies carried until late 1998. The weapons that were tested were the Glock .40, the Sig 226 and 229 in .40 and the USP .40. These tests produced the Sig 229 and USP Compact .40 and later we added the USP in .357 Sig that I presently carry. The Glock had its share of documented teething problems from the very first batch we received. I remember the instructors at Glynco needing to revise their standard firearms curriculum due to encounters with the limp wristing and the initial panic produced by a few isolated slam fires that were experienced with the first pistols we received. Glock later blamed that on an error in shipping, declaring we received older pistols that had not yet been modified. I have no way of knowing if this is true because I don’t work for Glock.
I do know that I was placed in a firearm class in 1999 during in-service at Glynco to train and then be issued a Glock. But the day before the class was to begin the Agency pulled the Glock from our inventory. Specifying various problems with the firearm, from Deputies openly stating to range instructors that they were uncomfortable with the weapon, to our technicians citing higher than normal failure to feeds and uneasiness about the high-pressure rounds we carried causing the “kabooms”.
While some agencies do issue this gun such as the FBI I do think that it is not a choice weapon for a new hire or the first time handgun owner.
Fish
I think one moderator says “think twice, post once”.
That being said might I offer up just a bit of insight from my experience. When I joined the US Marshals in 1995 we were just commencing the change over of our duty weapons. USMS issued the Sig 228, which most Deputies carried until late 1998. The weapons that were tested were the Glock .40, the Sig 226 and 229 in .40 and the USP .40. These tests produced the Sig 229 and USP Compact .40 and later we added the USP in .357 Sig that I presently carry. The Glock had its share of documented teething problems from the very first batch we received. I remember the instructors at Glynco needing to revise their standard firearms curriculum due to encounters with the limp wristing and the initial panic produced by a few isolated slam fires that were experienced with the first pistols we received. Glock later blamed that on an error in shipping, declaring we received older pistols that had not yet been modified. I have no way of knowing if this is true because I don’t work for Glock.
I do know that I was placed in a firearm class in 1999 during in-service at Glynco to train and then be issued a Glock. But the day before the class was to begin the Agency pulled the Glock from our inventory. Specifying various problems with the firearm, from Deputies openly stating to range instructors that they were uncomfortable with the weapon, to our technicians citing higher than normal failure to feeds and uneasiness about the high-pressure rounds we carried causing the “kabooms”.
While some agencies do issue this gun such as the FBI I do think that it is not a choice weapon for a new hire or the first time handgun owner.
Fish
Rich Lucibella said: "The H in Mal's name stands for "Honor"; like in, "Honor your word". From your signed agreement with TFL:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No spamming, trolling, flaming or other personal attacks, be they acrimonious or veiled in humor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Got it, new guy? Rich
Yeah...old guy I got it. No, I didn't actually sign off on anything though. I clicked a button a joined and none of that means that I would indeed honor my word. I in fact and admit that I broke my word all to hell. But then again I'm certainly not the only person guilty of that in this forum or especially this thread. Go ahead an make an example of me if you so desire. It certainly doesn't matter in the end. Debate often inspires heated and sometimes ugly disagreement. If you won't allow people to speak their minds, even in that fashion, then what is the point of this forum if we are not free to speak our minds now matter how odd, radical or rude that voice may be? I already know what the answer to that question is. "No matter how you feel Snubnose we still have rules here and you need to honor your agreement." That's fine. Just let me know where my membership stands at this point.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No spamming, trolling, flaming or other personal attacks, be they acrimonious or veiled in humor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Got it, new guy? Rich
Yeah...old guy I got it. No, I didn't actually sign off on anything though. I clicked a button a joined and none of that means that I would indeed honor my word. I in fact and admit that I broke my word all to hell. But then again I'm certainly not the only person guilty of that in this forum or especially this thread. Go ahead an make an example of me if you so desire. It certainly doesn't matter in the end. Debate often inspires heated and sometimes ugly disagreement. If you won't allow people to speak their minds, even in that fashion, then what is the point of this forum if we are not free to speak our minds now matter how odd, radical or rude that voice may be? I already know what the answer to that question is. "No matter how you feel Snubnose we still have rules here and you need to honor your agreement." That's fine. Just let me know where my membership stands at this point.
Will Beararms
New member
Stop the train! As much as I love Glocks, TFW as well as the rest of us are entitled to our own opinions and even to be inaccurate as long as we are not immoral or inflamatory.
We are all on the ame page when push comes to shove aren't we. If one of you out there will buy me a new HK USP or Sig Classic, I might be able to change my position.
We are all on the ame page when push comes to shove aren't we. If one of you out there will buy me a new HK USP or Sig Classic, I might be able to change my position.
Very embarrased
I find it quite embarrasing that we have entertained the weasel for as long as we have.
Weasel,
When you post something that obviously has not been proven anywhere else you should list your sources either by URL or at least the publication name and date. Otherwise, all your info is self generated poo poo.
I won't comment on the origional topic because the Glock pistol has been tested by far more qualified people and organizations then yourself.
Snubnose,
I think you fail to undertand that while this feels like a public forum it's not. It's privately run and open to members who follow the membership agreement. If you can't abide then go away.
I find it quite embarrasing that we have entertained the weasel for as long as we have.
Weasel,
When you post something that obviously has not been proven anywhere else you should list your sources either by URL or at least the publication name and date. Otherwise, all your info is self generated poo poo.
I won't comment on the origional topic because the Glock pistol has been tested by far more qualified people and organizations then yourself.
Snubnose,
I think you fail to undertand that while this feels like a public forum it's not. It's privately run and open to members who follow the membership agreement. If you can't abide then go away.
No, don't stop now; lets discuss this some more! Or maybe something similar? How 'bout the existence of Santa Claus? Obviously this topic needs discussion, since there are so many sightings every year, and so many people (although young) believe him to exist; therefore there MUST be merrit in the discussion, right?
BelaHedgehog
Inactive
Hey Fed, nevermind all the namecalling and simply go back to the discussion you wanted in the first place. Filter those folks who are just feeling angry and talk to the rest of us. Failure to do so may be construed as yielding to their position. 
... Where's the stats, man?
Oh yeah, to complicate things further(as if that needed doing), I'd like to throw in the idea that a safety lever, grip, etc. can complicate the operating procedure of a firearm, leading to other unsafe conditions. I'm sure more than a handful of us have heard the spooky words: "I thought the safety was on".
I have yet to hear of an incident of a Glock going off for any other reason than a trigger pull. I won't discount the possibility, but you'd have to do something to muck up the firing pin safety first.
... Where's the stats, man?Oh yeah, to complicate things further(as if that needed doing), I'd like to throw in the idea that a safety lever, grip, etc. can complicate the operating procedure of a firearm, leading to other unsafe conditions. I'm sure more than a handful of us have heard the spooky words: "I thought the safety was on".
I have yet to hear of an incident of a Glock going off for any other reason than a trigger pull. I won't discount the possibility, but you'd have to do something to muck up the firing pin safety first.
Topgun77th
New member
As much FUN as I was having reading the posts, I thought I would weigh in. I confess...I'm Glock owner / carrier. I caught this bug back in the early nintys before there was a cure...I thought I would lighten the mood. Nice try. Anyways, I been a range instructor with all levels of handelers with all kinds of firearms. I have seen new recruits and old patrol dogs shoot alot of the combat tupperware. I have not witnessed a single unintended discharge. So this figures out to be something roughly like this. 20 +/- students per class X, 1000 rds per student per class, X 3 classes a year, times 8 years = 480,000 rounds, probabley a little less since the early nintys some still carried wheelguns, including me. Well, even half of that is a lot of rounds with a failure. I've had 50,000 rounds through my G with out a wrong bang. The only mishap that I heard of was Poor BasXXX. had deceided to field strip a G-22 with out unloading it, checking the chamber, removing the mag, racking the slide, visual and tactically feeling for an empty chamber. He sat down at a table with three others, pulled his G out pointed it towards the ground which was right down one of his legs and pulled the trigger. The .40 exited his foot and he spent many weeks in recuperation. Very easy for that to have been a fatal wound. But, how could that be a failure of the Glock? The man violated so many safety rules that this " accident " was only a matter of time. Not to be unsensitive to the guy but there it is. This guy could have hurt himself with anything that day. Just a thought, safety is between the ears not in the hand.
Kids, play nice.
Think Safe / Stay safer C
Sorry kids, Eject! Eject! Eject! I'M punching out. ZZZZZZZ
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[Edited by Topgun77th on 01-28-2001 at 09:55 PM]
Kids, play nice.
Think Safe / Stay safer C
Sorry kids, Eject! Eject! Eject! I'M punching out. ZZZZZZZ
1/28
[Edited by Topgun77th on 01-28-2001 at 09:55 PM]
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