Glock PC collaboration with the Feds

J

Joseph

New member
Anyone have any comments about Glock working with the Feds to build a PC database of casing "fingerprints" so their weapons are traceable?

We hear a lot about Colt going PC, just wondering about Glock.

Have a great PC Christmas/Chanuka/Kwanzaa/New Year/Druid Solstice etc., etc.!

Roon
 
I will jump in on this one. (hell, might as well since I am at work on Christmas Day!) I think that Glock IS selling out. I am sick of everybody sticking up for the gun manufactures who do this and say "but they are only trying to appease the antis so they wont take ALL our guns away!" When will some of us out there wake up and remember this is exactly the attitude most folks had right before WWII. Give an inch, they will take a mile. There can be no compromises in this fight. To those who say that this is an unreasonable attitude, I say that the whole concept of firearms regulation is unreasonable. The very notion that civilians that make up the safeguard of our freedom are prevented from owning the same weapons that they would have to face in the event of an oppressive government is ludicrous. pant, pant, sigh :) Sorry about that, just had to speak my mind on this...

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"peace, love, joy, and happiness..."



[This message has been edited by tobeat1 (edited December 25, 1999).]
 
I will throw this in . I have a new Glock 21 and when I was cleaning it last weekend I noticed 2 nicks in the lands of the bore , I figured I probably caused them while cleaning even though I am careful and use Dewey coated rods . I called Glock to see how much a new barrel would run and when the guy asked me why I needed a new barrel I told him about the nicks , he asked for my serial number and told me to call him back after the 1st of the year , he said it sounded to him like I got a "Police Run" gun , I asked him what that was and he said a lot of departments ask for the bores to be marked in such a way as to identify the bullets that are fired from them . He said this is how they mark them , by putting small nicks in the bore . Just thought this was interesting as I have never heard of it before . Good luck , Mike...
 
The BATF has a database of case head and bullet markings to make it easier to identify a handgun used in a crime. All Glock is doing is providing samples with the serial number of the pistol they came from BEFORE it is used in a crime. If you're not shooting people or using the pistol recklessly, this isn't a problem. If the idea offends you, don't buy a new Glock. A sudden drop in sales, traced directly to this policy, may cause Glock to determine that collecting and delivering samples is prohibitively expensive and discontinue the practice. ;) Maybe not. This collaboration won't stop me from buying one of their pistols. I think more manufacturers will be collaborating in the near future.

This database is already helping to solve crimes. Think about it this way, if one of your firearms was stolen and used in a crime and recovered, the police would take these samples for use in prosecution of a criminal case. Assuming that your firearm was returned to you, this pistol is now in the database. The very same database that would most likely lead to the recovery of your stolen gun in the first place. This is not a bad thing.

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May your lead always hit center mass and your brass always land in your range bag.

~Blades~


[This message has been edited by blades67 (edited December 25, 1999).]
 
I agree with blades67, unless you all are planning on using your Glocks in an illegal manner, than this is nothing to get your skirt blown up over. This is to be used to be able to trace casings found at crime scenes to the firearm it was fired from. That's it. Your name isn't associated with the casing "fingerprint." If I ever get involved in a shooting, I assure you I will be calling 911 and handing them my pistol if necessary. I'm not going to be running from the scene leaving my shell casings behind so the cops can have them matched to my gun. This is no big deal.
 
I always knew that there was a reason that I didn't own a (cough,cough) Glock!!!!!

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Just as there is no such thing as too much fun,
there is no such thing as owning just one gun!!!

Now, go do the right thing, and buy that Walther!!
 
How's this: Your a good citizen minding your own, when some GB'er wants to deprive you of life/home. You protect yourself. Rather than the rest of his boys knowing where you live, you clean things up and/or hightail it out of there. You were legal and acted entirley in self defence. Now there's a trail for the good guys to follow. Unfortunately, the bad guys can follow too and now your name is available to those nimrods and you and your families world is open for interuption through no fault of your own.

Anonimity should be an option. The same rule that lib's use that say 100 guilty should go free rather than punish one inocent man should apply to firearms owners too. Or are we already guilty of a crime just by owning a gun?!
 
Seanc, what kind of fantasy are you talking
about that is relevant to the question at hand?

If Glock does it, all the major manufacturers will be right behind.

Do you get excited about the ID numbers on
your car?

If you think the actions is a precursor to
total control, I can see the point but otherwise - so what.
 
In order to trace the cases effectively, the guns have to REGISTERED. But that would be inefficient, with 50 different states and all, so we will have to have registration at the federal level. All in a central database. And we will have to eliminate private sales....
Can you see where this is going?
Am I paranoid? Maybe. But ask the people of Kalifornia about registration.Or better yet, ask the people in the UK. After all, if you don't plan on using your gun illegally, then registration is not a problem, is it?



[This message has been edited by lowrider (edited December 26, 1999).]
 
Boyccot Glock! Get rid of any Glocks you have and don't buy any new ones. That will make an impression on their management.
 
I bear no patent on perfection------only one man born of a virgin in Bethlehem is without sin. That having been said, I do my best to abide by the law and lead a productive life. We live under a system that holds us innocent until proven guilty. The initiative Glock and the Feds are working on assumes that we are guilty until proven innocent. Remember, one can never prove a negative.

Furthermore, remember that Austria and Germany are socialist countries. Sig,HK and Glock could care less about our right to own a handgun in the final analysis and quite frankly, they probbably don't understand it. Glock's recent actions should serve as proof of this. These companies are going after the large police and military contracts with the hopes of putting the competition out of business. Make no mistake about it, if the U.S. Attorney General's Office told Glock to either stop selling to civilians or lose all of their government contracts, what do you think would happen?

Wake up and vote now with your pocket books!



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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Fingerprinting the casings doesn't bother me so much but I like several other posters here am concerned where this will lead us. I do believe that there is an obvious concerted effort to thwart the 2nd ammendment in this country. I do not believe that it will likely be repealed in my lifetime, but I am very concerned about any government that actively moves toward disarming it's citizens. Frankly I am more concerned about national ID card issues than bore markings but it does seem that these individual privacy rights skirmishes are being waged on several fronts and I don't like the idea of having my money used against me in this manner.
_____________________________________________
Furthermore, remember that Austria and Germany are socialist countries. Sig,HK and Glock could care less about our right to own a handgun in the final analysis and quite frankly, they probbably don't understand it.
_____________________________________________

To believe this is just plain naive. Each of those companies have a vested interest in America's 2nd Ammendment. They are certainly aware of their market, which explains why they want to cooperate with the FEDS.

Jagr



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The idea that the sole aim of punishment is to prevent crime is obviously grounded upon the theory that crime can be prevented, which is almost as dubious as the notion that poverty can be prevented.
---H.L. Mencken 1956
 
"Fingerprinting" and bore markings only work if they're tied to the gun's serial number...and who sold it...and to who...and who s/he sold/gave/loaned it to...

...and gee, all that info is conveniently linked to other info, and profiles made, and borderline-legal checks and stops made, and "gee, we just banned that and we know you have one and haven't turned it in", and pigeonholing done ("owns guns, must be high risk"), and more licensing and restrictions ("you have 5 guns and likely lots of ammo; have you applied for your arsenal license?"), and and and...

Thus:
- place markings and gather info on all guns
- extremely few guns actually used in crimes
- very few of those used in crimes would be subject to trace
- note that the crimes are committed before the trace, meaning the crime is not averted, just the chance of prosecution is marginally increased
- the fingerprints are easily changed by a few boxes of ammo or a quick barrel swap (I predict a new gang practice: barrel swapping)

that's an awful lot of work and info gathered for very few criminals caught (never mind the already swamped and wilfully ineffective judicial system)...but it creates an enormous database extremely valuable for oppression and termination of rights, a value not easily overlooked by bureaucrats and wannabe-tyrants.

Beware enemies bearing gifts.
 
Nothing, I repeat, nothing good will come out of this. The laws on the books are'nt even being thought of much less being prosecuted.

We went with the 1968 Gun Control Act and the politicians said that the honest man would not be hurt and he was. We went with the Brady Bill with the caveat that the five-day waiting period would be phased out in lieu of an instant check system and now they are working to re-instate it. We added in a clause that even for a felon to attempt to buy a gun would mean prosecution and it has not. We went with the 1994 Crime Bill and it was supposed to prevent criminals from mass shootings and it has not.

Why are some of you so gullible? A tracing system will only affect the law-abiding once again. Imagine what will happen if we have a Democrat majority in Congress and Democrat in the White House and they decide to severely restrict or even outlaw hadguns altogether? Leave a spent shell casing from a marked pistol somewhere and you will be milk toast.

Folks, Gaston Glock lives in a socialist country. He may not be concerned with the Second Amendment or believe in it. Paul Januzzo is concerned with one thing------lining Gaston Glock's safe------nothing else. If this continues, the manufacturers who are against it will be forced to play or get out of the Military and LEO market if it becomes an industry standard. Glock is in the business of earning a profit in the most efficient manner possible as are all businesses. If they think for one minute that a competitive advantage can be realized with this system that will yield long term benefits, they will go for it and leave John Q. Public behind.

I am sick and tired of giving up a little Liberty for a little security. It's high time to punish the evil doers for once and get off the proverbial backs of the average citizen. I do not for one instant advocate anything even remotely illegal but I do support shutting off the consumer spending to Glock unless this initiative is stopped dead in its tracks. For those of you who are not willing to sacrifice the quality of a Glock for our freedom, don't come back and whine when the rug gets pulled out from under us. If the Lord tarries in his coming and this type of thing is allowed to happen, our grand children will not be privy to the same freedoms that all of us have been blessed with. This is nothing more than a gun registration scheme coming through the back door. Not one more law against the honest citizen; not one more!

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Jagr:

If an administration bent on the total destruction of individual gun rights sits down with all of the major manufacturers and tells them to play ball and stop selling to the public or suffer the wrath of a biased Federal Court system and a pack of blood thirsty lawyers, do you think for one minute that the Industry won't blink after what has happened to the Small Aircraft Industry and big tobbaco?

I am not naive, in fact this is what is happening as we read this. Given the choice, the manufacturers will turn on John Q. Public in a heartbeat because they know that we are spoiled American consumers and will not remain unified. Face up to it, the Industry will weigh the costs and take the path of least resistance if the heat continues and the Republicans lose the Congress and White House in 2000.

Please don't take this as a personal attack but we have conceded enough. It's time to punish criminals and not citizens.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
I think many of you are missing some VERY IMPORTANT points. If a crime is commited with a gun - any gun - what is (or should be) the goal of the law enforcement community? Finding the CRIMINAL, not determining what gun was used. Which gun is irrelevant, unless you are trying to gather data to further agendas like the current lawsuits against manufacturer/dealers. For this proposed database to work, it would need to be tied to a national registry of ALL firearms ownerws. Also, because this would create more work for manufacturers, they would have to raise prices to cover the costs. The government would likewise need to spend a great deal of $$ to build and maintain this system. I beleive the figure I heard was $20 million to start with. All of this money and effort for what? It WILL NOT prevent crime, as it is not a proactive system, but a reactive one. It is NOT cost effective, since so few guns are used in crime vs. the total numnber in circulation, not to mention the fact that there is no way to get everyone with guns manufactured prior to the implementation of this system to come in for "testing". With all of that said, what happens when we nick our own barrels? Swap barrels, bolts, etc? Install a new firing pin or ejector? Even toss a 400 Corbon barrle in our 45, or a 357sig barrel in our 40s&w? The differences in markings on the casings are caused by ever so slight variances during the manufacturing and assembly process. Make any changes and you get a whole new set of markings. What then would happen if Joe Criminals Glock produced markings nearly identical to John Goodguy? Would they have probable cause to search his home and arrest him? I see no good in this excessivly expensive solution to a non-problem. This could only hurt us in the long run. Let Glock know how you feel about this decision. Also let your legislators know.
-Spyderman

Will B.- I totally agree! Not one more.

[This message has been edited by Spyderman (edited December 28, 1999).]
 
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