Glock KaBoom!!

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I've read everything I could locate on the Glock kB! topic and even done some physical inspections and measurements. My conclusions:

There is reason to suspect that Glocks kB! less frequently (incidents per 100,000 rounds fired, for example) than other guns, but the total number of reports is greater because there are so many of them in circulation. Plus, I suspect that Glock shooters have higher ammo consumption than most others (save IPSC & IDPA junkies).

The problem with Glocks could be severely reduced or perhaps eliminated by either making them "disconnect" sooner (a simple slide modification), or by making the slide travel 1/8-inch farther backwards before the unlocking cams engage (not so simple). Once this is done, all kB!s would truly be from really, really bad overpressure reloads.

Shifting the feed ramp back so the chamber diameter is uninterrupted by the ramp at the case wall area *should* be possible without compromising reliability. It would take only 2 mm of change, which could be negated by shifting the magazine well back 2 mm as well.

One thing: I'm curious about all of these cracked chamber stories. Are there fluid dynamics factors involved which would allow a chamber to crack easier when there is a case wall failure? How does the Glock minimum chamber wall dimension compare with the Ruger P- series? Those withstood the totally plugged barrel and Proof load test, with dramatic brass failure and nothing worse than blowing the extractor off.

Has anyone done a similar destructive test on any of the Glock series?

My final conclusion is that there *is* something fishy going on. It's painfully reminiscent of the almost impossible to replicate "slamfire" blowups with M1s and M1As--the partially locked bolt events which crack the stock and mess up locking lugs.
 
One thing I thought of when I read this... The 9mm Luger was designed for the strongest auto pistol action yet devised, the P08. And it is suitably stoked in order to make it a powerful round, on paper at least. If memory serves, the pressure is on the order of double what the venerable 45 ACP generates. The 40 S&W also is a high pressure round. The 9 and the 40 hold this extra pressure because the brass is relatively thicker than the 45's. The moral of this little dissertation is, if I were shooting 9mm Luger or 40 S&W, (or 10mm or Super 38, for that matter) in a pistol other than a P08, I would use brand new factory ammo only. I still reload 45. The brass seems to last forever with the mild pressures it generates. Regards :)

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Yankee Doodle
 
Just a question, please no smart remarks or propaganda for any other gun types. Would the other guns in question the H&K, Rugers, you name it, survive the case rupture? RD
 
The obstructed bore test seems to have become a standard. The FBI Glocks passed BTW(round in the barrel an inch in front of chamber, another round fired behind it). So has the USP.

Some guns (Walther P99/S&W SW99, USP, SIGs) seem to have made some/all of the changes mentioned; more/full case support, barrel stays locked together longer/farther during cycling, less likely to fire out of battery, thicker chamber walls. These guns will handle higher pressures better, for whatever reason you encounter them (bad factory load, squib, leaded barrel, bad reload, etc).

I did not say the Glocks were defective; just that the thinner chambers and less case support mean they _will_ blow cases before the others, sustain more damage than the others sooner too.

IOW, you will blow case in a Glock that might not go in a USP/SIG, and a Glock barrel will rupture before a USP barrel will.

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>>>>---->
 
FACT: Avid shooters WILL shoot reloads unless they get their ammo free from a dept or are sponsored or are rich. This is reality.

However, I think reloaders MUST take extra care when they reload for the .40 cal (and all other calibers for that matter).

Attention must be given to:

1) Overall cartridge length.
2) Overall case length.
3) Overall case size. Obtain and use a cartridge case gauge and learn how to use it. If the round fits in this gauge, it will fit your gun.
4) Don't try to overpower this round. You don't have to shoot the most powerful ammo when practicing.
5) Personally, I would use a light bullet as these will not be so pressure sensitive.
6) Don't use someone's "pet load". I hate those books that are published listing some gunwriter's pet loads. Those might have been the best loads in HIS GUNS. But they are absolutely useless in your gun (IMHO). I think a number of people get into trouble by using someone else's load info.
7) Become THOROUGHLY educated in the reloading process. Ignorance in this activity could get you killed.
8) Don't switch components without backing down on the powder charge.
9) Throw away any component that you suspect as faulty.
10) KEEP YOUR GUN CLEAN. This includes the bolt face area and under the extractor.
11) Make sure your ammo is clean.

FWIW
 
"Hello, welcome to our support group and 12-step program - please take a minute and tell the group about yourself".

"Well, my name's Bob, and I too am a Glock-hater. It's hard to admit that, but I am. It all started in the mid-80's, when the tactical tupperware first became available. I was always brought up to believe anything plastic ain't worth nothing. If it's not made of steel with 'S&W' on the side, it's crap, my dad used to say....."
 
David S.:

Corresponding with Dean Speir, eh? He's ONE of very few writers who I trust.

But I must disagree with your characterization of the Glock upgrades as being like unto RECALLS. Changing the angle of surfaces on the extractor to avoid chipping the thing in .45 ACP does _nothing_ to address the kB! issue. Neither does lengthening the metal slide rails in the frame a few millimeters.

Please enlighten me as to _what_ Glock "refinements" could affect the kB! issue. (yeah, yeah, they do impact "perfection")

It seems that part of the problem with the .40 is all those IPSC shooters trying to make major with every single round and givng their brass the smiley face treatment.

They should never try to make major with 180s using WW 231.

So, do we agree that range-scrounged .40 brass is MOST LIKELY to be overstressed by the previous shooter's loads?

Oh, the joys of recovering once-fired brass!

[This message has been edited by Cheapo (edited July 29, 1999).]
 
Just another question. I really don't ever recall reading on any gun manual I have ever seen that they(the gun's maker) had no problem with the buyer shooting reloads. I seem to remember all they say is to use only factory ammo. Please educate me if I am wrong.



[This message has been edited by Road Dog (edited July 29, 1999).]
 
I do wish some of you guys would GET A LIFE. First (having worked in the gun and ammo business for a few years) I've seen lots of guns that have gone Kboom (excessive pressure). glocks, Smiths, colts, shotguns, HP rifles with both factory rounds and reloads. It is just more fun to talk about glocks. No they dont like lead reloads. No they don't go KBOOM with factory pressures in good brass even with the unsupported area, and neither do colts, nor the rest. If you want fully supported get a wheel gun. the next problem is (pay attention) HEAD SEPERATIONS that have been all to common in 40 cal. All of the makers have beefed up the heads now. I personally have had around 15 or so head seps/partial head seps in 40 cal. usually no harm no foul. did lose one extractor once in my glock 23. had a head sep in a beretta 96D Cent. took the gun apart. Ammunition is not 100% predicatble in its performance. gun powder is not 100% predictable in its performance. All major ammo mfgs have some rate of critical ammunition defect rate of one or more in a couple of million or so rounds. That's life on the bell curve.

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Vinny
 
Cheapo;

> Corresponding with Dean Speir, eh? <

Hmmm, and how would you know that? :) I e-mailed him when this thread originally started as I know he "loves" this topic (along with "Stopping Power" and "Clips" ;)". I found your post of July 29, 1999 03:09 AM interesting and e-mailed Dean saying such and that he should take a look at it.

> He's ONE of very few writers who I trust.

In the years that I've know him he's never steered me wrong. I even bought a new firearm designed, sight unseen, on his recomendation.

> Please enlighten me as to _what_ Glock "refinements"

I have no idea as I'm not schooled in design matters. Which is the reason I found your post interesting and asked Dean to take a look at it.

> So, do we agree that range-scrounged .40 brass is MOST LIKELY to be overstressed by the previous shooter's loads? Oh, the joys of recovering once-fired brass!

Lets just say that ANY brass recovered from a range, not fired by one owns weapon should be suspect! As you said... the joys!

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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"




[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited July 29, 1999).]
 
My OPINION?

Well, seems to me that the ONE in the lead takes the heat and begins the drafting precess for the rest of the pack.

kb!'s Happen just like blown engines, transmissions... If a man made it, it will fail! Knowing that what precautions did/do you take?

Did I see a polymer framed SIG/HK-UPS/Kimber??? Must be SOMETHING to the Glock design... Checked the prices on Custom Springfield pieces? Kinda right in line with Kimber's prices.

Visibility carries consequences. Glock is just out there in the lead with other MFG's running to catch up. So they are an easier target than other MFG's

Aint a big deal though... As mentioned, we live in AmeriKa and are free to spend our dough with whomever we please - Unless the Missus finds out... (grin)

YMMV
{asbestos suit mode on}
 
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