Glock Issue

W

Will Beararms

New member
First of all, I wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah and a Prosperous New Year.

Glocks are wonderful machines. The barrel life is second to none and the finnish is imopervious the rigors of everyday life. Parts are abundant and they can handle Plus P ammo eagerly.

I will not carry a Glock with the chamber loaded due to the fact that I have not had sufficient and extensive training in a shoot/no shoot environment where decisions must be made on a split-second basis.

I do not wish to pour cold water on anyone's Christmas but I do strongly advise that you make the commitment to undergo in-depth instruction if you go Glock.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Will,

No matter how hard I try I just can't get myself to fall in love with Glocks! Believe me, I want to! Price, availability, simplicity, etc. I just can't get past the trigger on them! I just despise the safety being inside the trigger! It just isn't comfortable to me. So what am I going to do you ask? I'm going to shell out $200 extra to get a USP 9mm fullsize. It just "works" much better for me.
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!
 
Will,
You make a great point about training with the Glock but I think if you are considering carrying at all...once you get your CCW license you should demand alot of training for any gun. I'm still struggling with the idea of how incredibly huge the resposibility is when you carry a gun (even though I never have). To be able to defend yourself is a great freedom. The ability to handle that responsibility correctly is a thousand more times important.
 
I bought my first handgun in late eighties when Glocks were really starting to make a splash. I wasn't buying a 'plastic gun'. A few years ago when I was back in the market, a police officer relative of mine that was involved with procurement of new handguns strongly recommended them. I made the plunge and could not be happier. I have a 30 and a 26, and wish I could afford a 23 and 27. Once used to the action, they are simply fantastic. The appearance takes some getting used to, but I have personally found that function breeds attractiveness. The things require the attention of a crowbar, even though I clean my firearms everytime I shoot them. I understand some peoples aversion to them, but to me they are the most innovative sidearm of the latter half of the twentieth century.
 
I feel much safer with my G21's trigger safety than I do with my Gold Cup's thumb safety. One fewer thing to have to do when you really need to shoot something. Also, you don't forget that the gun will shoot when you pull the trigger.

I've got 'em both; prefer the Glock.
 
You are right. Contray to popular belief, Glocks aren't for everybody. I personally love my Glock 17 and the entire Glock line, but do I think a novice should buy one-no. Firearms take plenty of training to begin with and Glocks take more. Sure the trigger is different and that takes time to adjust to or learn. But, the major hurdle is-using a Glock safely. I believe that an AD is much more likely to occur with a Glock's 5.5lbs trigger than most other firearms. Most people either don't want to train(why I don't know), don't have the facilities or don't have the funds.

All that being said-once learned and respected you can't beat a Glock. I-like many of you-have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds in dozens of guns, and what sits on my nightstand as I close my eyes--

A Glock 17.

[This message has been edited by CX2 (edited December 23, 1999).]
 
I, too, love my Gold Cup. But, I shoot my Glock 21 a lot more. If I shoot a 100 rounds with the Gold Cup my hand feels like dead meat the next day and its .22 rimfire for shooting only for a day or two after. With the 21 I have shot up to 200 rounds at a session with no pain afterward. After a bit of polishing and some molyslide on the connector/trigger bar engagement the Glock trigger is actually tolerable. I try to shoot around 400 - 500 rounds a week through the two Glocks I have to improve my technique. It has helped out immensely when I shoot my other handguns, too.

[This message has been edited by slickpuppy (edited December 23, 1999).]
 
I'm confused. Do you mean you dont carry a handgun with a round in the chamber, for safety? I fail to see how it being a Glock has anything to do with it.
 
BB-Glock has no external manual safeties, and the "safe-action trigger" is one of the lightest DAO I've felt.
 
I have owned a Glock 22 and had good service from the pistol. I had an opportunity to realize a handsome profit from it with 4 Factory 15 round magazines after the 1994 Civillian Disaramament Bill and took it. I will never do such a thing again unless my children are hungry or the House note is way overdue.

I believe for the money that the Glock is the best value going today. That having been said, I am still wary of carrying a Glock with one in the chamber when there is only 5 1/2 pounds of pull between me and ignition versus a thumb safety or the customary 12 to 14 pounds from a traditional double action/single action handgun.

I know all about finger discipline and I can't agree more that all pistols warrant excesive and constant training. Novertheless, shooting from an ideal position in the average range is not enough for me to even think of utilizing the Glock Safe-Action trigger or any other type of handgun for that matter for undercover protection. While were on the subject, in my eyes, the testing needed to pass most CCW courses will not suffice either. Training should be something that all of us as responsible gun owners elect to do as opposed to the edicts of a government intent on controlling the law-abiding while giving up on efforts to enforce the laws on the books that address the criminal element of our society.

Most people are average ordinary citizens like myself who may own an extensive colection of firearms and be well read on related topics but lack the hands-on, real-life experience afforded to members of the LEO community or the Military.

Several years back, I had the opportunity to run through a "Shoot/No Shoot training program for a Sherriff's Department in Mississippi using a Sig P 220 .45ACP. My whole attitude about handguns has changed as a result. Namely, I prefer the controlability of the 9mm over the power of the .45ACP. Additonally, I actually favor a long double-action pull over a lighter more consistent pull finding it mush more easy to de-cock after a string of shots than to worry about the light pull of the Glock trigger. Certainly, I do believe in keeping the finger out off of the trigger until the moment of truth. The occurences that transpire when events are less than normal is what bothers me such as a rushed presentation from the holster when the hair begins to stand up on the back of your neck as a life or death situation rears its ugly head.

I am considering revisiting the Glock option but I will not comfortable toting one with a reound in the pipe until I undergo much more preparation.I by no means wish to restrict any person's will to choose and quite frankly, I believe we should have the right to carry without a registration scheme disguised as a CCW law. In the same breath, I hope that those "Average Joes" out there like myslf who legally carry Glocks concealed feel the same way I do about finger discipline as they frequent the same stores, offices and schools as my loved ones.

I have not yet participated in the gun owner registration scheme called a concealed carry law. I may take the plunge soon and the Glock 26 appears to be an excellent CCW implement. Even so, I still am wary of the trigger.



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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
It is VERY SIMPLE folks. If you do not want to fire the weapon DO NOT touch the trigger!!

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Give me liberty or give me death !!

Stay alive, shoot a .45 !!
 
If you don't feel safe carrying with one in the chamber , you shouldn't carry. It is not the lack of an external safety that makes a firearm unsafe, if that were the case you shouldn't carry a revolver either. Like you said training is everything, and that goes for carrying any kind of firearm not just Glocks. Like they say , you don't a firearm at anything you don't intend to shoot and you don't put your finger on the trigger until you have utilized all other resources and have made the total committment to fire.
 
G&S, Rob96, others:

You're missing the issue that people are pointing out. They are not saying that Glocks are unsafe when they put their finger on the trigger, they are saying that it is easier for a Glock to discharge accidentally due to its design. For example, the way holstering is correctly taught with a gun such as the P226, the trigger finger rests along the side of the gun to help guide it into the holster while the thumb holds the hammer down to make sure that if the trigger snags on something it doesn't go off. With such a procedure, holstering is completely safe. With an SA gun, the safety protects against a discharge if the trigger snags on something. The difference with something like a Glock is that not only is the trigger quite light, so it would not take much pressure to push it back, there is also no way to hold the hammer down while holstering. This is a design flaw in my opinion, and one of the major reasons I am not interested in carrying a Glock. I think they are fine weapons, but I wish there were a way to be more sure that it would not accidentally go off. One of the main things that I have come to like about my P7M8 is that I am completely comfortable carrying it Mexican style when I need extra concealment, because it would take an amazing set of circumstances to both compress the squeeze cocker and pull the trigger. Such a practice is not really advisable with something like a 1911, since there is a chance that the safety will get accidentally wiped off, but I would call it downright stupid to carry a Glock Mexican style due to how easily something like the keys in your pocket could snag the trigger when you sat down, for example.
 
If you don't like the trigger pull of the Glock you can increase it to 8# or 12# pulls. But no matter what it all still boils down to training. With the holsters that are designed today , snagging the trigger is a least likely occurrence, if you practice safe gun handling. My whole point is nothing substitutes quality training and practice.
 
Jeff Cooper said it best, "The double action semi-auto is a simple solution to a non-existant problem..."

As long as you keep your finger out of the trigger guard and carry the gun in a holster that fully encloses the trigger guard, there is NOTHING wrong with carrying a Glock with a round chambered.

I do it everyday. I carry inside the waistband in the appropriate holster.

Do I worry about the gun going off inside the holster? No.

Do I worry about the gun going off during the draw? No.

Do I worry about the gun going off during reholstering? No.

Why don't I worry? I keep my finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard until I am ready to fire.

If you need to be trained to keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire, then you shouldn't be carrying a gun, period.

That doesn't require training. It requires COMMON SENSE.
 
Seems to me that the Glock takes more discipine in reholstering. That's been my only area of worry.

But if I carry the Glock I'm carrying it with the chamber loaded. I never shoot something I'm not trying to.
 
I don't own a Glock, however, I do carry my weapon with a round in the chamber. I was trained to do this. I was also trained to keep my finger off the trigger until I was ready to fire!!

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Just as there is no such thing as too much fun,
there is no such thing as owning just one gun!!!
 
one of the great things about the Glock design is that you can change the trigger pull to 3.5, 5, 8, or 12 pounds as desired, by installing the appropriate *factory* components. zero gunsmithing required; it takes a 3/16" punch and about one minute (hey, I'm slow).

given the statistics on self-defense shootings, which indicate that the vast majority of shootouts occur at 15 ft range or less, I think the standard NY trigger spring in a Glock (about 8 lb) makes sense for a purely defensive pistol. you may not win any prizes at 25 yards with it, but that's OK.
 
I see. Well, all I can say on this subject is that all safeties can be overcome with stupidity and ignorance. A safety should never be looked upon as a crutch for proper firearms handling, which is what this anti-glock argument always comes down to. That said, I own many different types of handguns, all of them have their qualities and quirks. I've been carrying a Glock for defense for 10 years now, and I've never had an AD, never shot anyone I didnt intend to shoot, and had maybe 2 FTF, both were in the first mag shot through my G21 (now well over 3000rnds). I depend on them because they work. I dont care if it's pretty, or if it will do "one hole shots". What I care about in a defensive handgun is being able to hit a 3" spot at 15 yards, every single time, regardless of conditions. That cant be said for many guns. In fact, I can only think of probably 4 or 5 that fall into that catagory. Whatever works for you, go with it. But for crying out loud guys, give it a rest! If Glocks were as bad as some of you would have us believe, then Glock would have gone out of business years ago.
 
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