This is getting slow so I will set myself up for more bashing. I am a Glock fan. I think they are the best combat handguns around, especially the G19(Universal Round Availability). I am curious as to why would Gaston design the safety on the trigger. Wouldn't a squeeze-cock or back-strap(ala 1911) make more sense? Most AD are due to people having their fingers on the trigger. If people just kept their fingers off the trigger wouldn't that make ANY gun safe? I know that supposedly it would help in preventing a dropped discharge, but isn't that covered by the plunger? Couldn't post this on GlockTalk because I would get flamed hard without really getting any real info. So fellow TFLers, fire away.
Glock Curiosity
- Thread starter jetrecbn1
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To answer your question I would almost have to be able to read Gaston's mind, which I can't do so I'll just express an opinion. The Glock design lends itself to quickly and easily bring a gun into ready mode from concealed or open carry. The striker safety is only overcome when the trigger is depressed otherwise it prevents an AD if the gun is dropped. Even if it is dropped the striker doesn't have sufficient pressure on it to hit the primer. As far as the safety on the trigger it is the reason why it's so quick and easy to draw and fire the Glock. There is a remote risk in that something other than a finger can overcome the trigger safety, such as keys or a twig. This is where the grip safety of the 1911 is superior. Nonetheless I agree with you the final safety is between the ears and if you keep your finger off the trigger until you are aiming at what you want to shoot, you will avoid all ADs.
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jtduncan,
I'm glad to see someone else feels that Glocks don't make good "first guns."
Sure they're simple, just like a beginner needs. But in my opinion, Glocks are TOO simple for the typical beginning shooter to use right away. You can get yourself into trouble more quckly with a Glock than with MANY other guns. The light trigger does not allow for much leeway IF you forget your fingers on the trigger. This can be overcome with propper training and plenty of practice. Chances are, people aren't going to know about the NY trigger options either.
That said, I love Glocks... I even like their looks
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
I'm glad to see someone else feels that Glocks don't make good "first guns."
Sure they're simple, just like a beginner needs. But in my opinion, Glocks are TOO simple for the typical beginning shooter to use right away. You can get yourself into trouble more quckly with a Glock than with MANY other guns. The light trigger does not allow for much leeway IF you forget your fingers on the trigger. This can be overcome with propper training and plenty of practice. Chances are, people aren't going to know about the NY trigger options either.
That said, I love Glocks... I even like their looks
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
J
Jeff, CA
Guest
I've heard the trigger safety is a concession to the gun control act of 1968 - it's nominally an "external safety", and that the European version does not have it. Anyone else heard this?
J
Jeff, CA
Guest
yeah, I thought the "drop safety" was internal - it's a ramp that prevents the trigger bar from dropping away from the striker sear until the last little bit of trigger movement (check the animated safety descriptions at glockmeister.com).
I disagree, my first pistol was a Glock. The only thing advanced about them is that you need to keep your finger off the trigger, one of the basic rules of firearm safety. They are the perfect gun for beginners because you don't have levers, switches or other lack-of-safety devices.
Well, my first gun was a Glock 17. As long as you obey the big three safety rules, it's just fine.
Personally, though, I think it is a better gun for a novice than a traditional DA/SA pistol. With the Glock, you only have to learn one trigger stroke. With a DA/SA pistol, you have to learn two.
Jared
Personally, though, I think it is a better gun for a novice than a traditional DA/SA pistol. With the Glock, you only have to learn one trigger stroke. With a DA/SA pistol, you have to learn two.
Jared
The Griffon
Inactive
Sorry, I also have to disagree with the "not for a first gun" statement. The lighter double action pull of the Glock makes it a good choice for a woman. Both my wife and my sister have very small, weak hands and pulling the trigger on a double action, on most guns, was hard enough to really throw off their aim and make subsequent shots with a revolver very hard. The Glock solved this problem. The real issue is take the time to practice and familiarize yourself with your gun. My Sis bought a Glock 23C ( I liked it so much I bought one too ) and the first thing she did was go out and put 200 rounds throught it.
I'm so proud of her.
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The difference between an optimist and a pessimist is the pessimist has more information.
) and the first thing she did was go out and put 200 rounds throught it.I'm so proud of her.
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The difference between an optimist and a pessimist is the pessimist has more information.
I have been shot at (figuratively) on this before. The only logical reason for a manual safety is to keep the gun from firing IF THE TRIGGER IS ACCIDENTALLY PULLED. The Glock trigger safety serves no functional purpose; it may serve a legal one. To all intents and purposes, the Glock has no external safety.
Jim
Jim
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jetrecbn1:
This is getting slow so I will set myself up for more bashing. I am a Glock fan. I think they are the best combat handguns around, especially the G19(Universal Round Availability). I am curious as to why would Gaston design the safety on the trigger. Wouldn't a squeeze-cock or back-strap(ala 1911) make more sense? [/quote]
Actually, as a handgun designed for combat use; the trigger safety, combined with the stock pull, makes a lot of sense. The backstrap, being polymer, may not have the rigidity required.
Also, the Glock has only 34 parts (±), far fewer then most other handguns. This, to me, is elegant from the engineering standpoint.
This is getting slow so I will set myself up for more bashing. I am a Glock fan. I think they are the best combat handguns around, especially the G19(Universal Round Availability). I am curious as to why would Gaston design the safety on the trigger. Wouldn't a squeeze-cock or back-strap(ala 1911) make more sense? [/quote]
Actually, as a handgun designed for combat use; the trigger safety, combined with the stock pull, makes a lot of sense. The backstrap, being polymer, may not have the rigidity required.
Also, the Glock has only 34 parts (±), far fewer then most other handguns. This, to me, is elegant from the engineering standpoint.
Glock was my first handgun. I had no problems following the rules in it's proper and safe use.
Just keep your finger off the trigger. Simple rule to remember. No safeties to forget ("I thought the safety was on")
The trigger safety would disable some accidents involving things getting in the trigger guard. It would not stop all, but it could stop some accidental trigger passing from holster straps or whatever could get in there and press the trigger from a variety of angles.
The most credible theory I heard was that Gaston put it on there to fit US laws that said that guns had to have a certain amount of features to be imported. Also, it fills some military demands for an external safety.
There is no way for a Glock to go off if you drop it, the ONLY way a Glock goes off is if you press the trigger.
Dropping the gun does not produce enough inertia to pull the trigger back and fire the gun, but...possibly you could drop the gun on it's butt, the trigger could come back far enough to disengage the striker safety and the striker could be jarred into firing the gun.
In the end, the only way to fire a Glock is by pulling the trigger, so some sort of safety to keep the trigger from being pressed, by anything other than a finger, makes some sense.
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"Our cause has been aided by the deaths of all these children in all these schools, and in other settings. And I think we should pay tribute to them." - President Bill Clinton, dancing in the blood of children and pushing his irrelevant gun control laws, April 12, 2000, Scripps Howard News Service Interview
Just keep your finger off the trigger. Simple rule to remember. No safeties to forget ("I thought the safety was on")
The trigger safety would disable some accidents involving things getting in the trigger guard. It would not stop all, but it could stop some accidental trigger passing from holster straps or whatever could get in there and press the trigger from a variety of angles.
The most credible theory I heard was that Gaston put it on there to fit US laws that said that guns had to have a certain amount of features to be imported. Also, it fills some military demands for an external safety.
There is no way for a Glock to go off if you drop it, the ONLY way a Glock goes off is if you press the trigger.
Dropping the gun does not produce enough inertia to pull the trigger back and fire the gun, but...possibly you could drop the gun on it's butt, the trigger could come back far enough to disengage the striker safety and the striker could be jarred into firing the gun.
In the end, the only way to fire a Glock is by pulling the trigger, so some sort of safety to keep the trigger from being pressed, by anything other than a finger, makes some sense.
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"Our cause has been aided by the deaths of all these children in all these schools, and in other settings. And I think we should pay tribute to them." - President Bill Clinton, dancing in the blood of children and pushing his irrelevant gun control laws, April 12, 2000, Scripps Howard News Service Interview
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Well - there have been Glocks with external safeties but they haven't been sold in the USA.
You can modify SW revolvers to have external safeties.
Alchemy is advertising a Glockish gun with a grip safey and 1911 style external safety.
So all of it is out there if you want it.
Personally, you shouldn't carry any gun without being really comfortable with its mechanism.
Plenty of DA revolver NDs. In fact, some departments dropped in ND went they went to
Glocks. Sorry not to remember the reference.
Some high rate ND and Glock departments have a covariation of hiring a lot of crappy cops at the same time.
You can modify SW revolvers to have external safeties.
Alchemy is advertising a Glockish gun with a grip safey and 1911 style external safety.
So all of it is out there if you want it.
Personally, you shouldn't carry any gun without being really comfortable with its mechanism.
Plenty of DA revolver NDs. In fact, some departments dropped in ND went they went to
Glocks. Sorry not to remember the reference.
Some high rate ND and Glock departments have a covariation of hiring a lot of crappy cops at the same time.
Your finger is not the only thing that can cause a Glock to fire. If the trigger catches on a piece of clothing while holstering it could happen. I really wish Glock would have an external safety like the Smith & Wesson autos do. That way you can use the safety if you want or carry it with the safety off. With the hot summers in Texas I like to use the "mexican carry" due to less bulk. I won't carry a Glock in this fashion though. For this style of carry it's either a Smith & Wesson or a 1911 for me.
Rainbow Six
New member
Ben,
Anyone who can possibly forget that their finger is on the trigger does NOT need to be handling a gun.
FWIW, I sure hope that Glock doesn't listen to some of you. For me, the K.I.S.S. principle applies to bringing a pistol into action. I don't want a stupid external safety to have to manipulate under pressure. I will keep any and everything clear of the trigger guard until I am ready to shoot. I don't need or want a gun designer/manufacturer to do my thinking or be safe for me.
There are no accidental discharges, only user error incidents. If you do, or allow, anything to pull, push, squeeze, or otherwise manipulate the trigger when it is anything but pointed where you want to shoot, you have mishandled the gun. It's that simple. In my opinion, an external thumb/grip safety is a crutch for someone who doesn't want to follow the golden rules of gun carry.
#1- Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
#2- Don't point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot.
#3- Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot
Common sense tells us that #3 would also apply to twigs, keys, holster straps and anything else that will fit into the trigger guard.
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Georgia TFL'ers get together:
May 20, 2000-From 3pm to 6pm
http://www.wolfcreek-gun.com
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R6...aka...Chris
Anyone who can possibly forget that their finger is on the trigger does NOT need to be handling a gun.
FWIW, I sure hope that Glock doesn't listen to some of you. For me, the K.I.S.S. principle applies to bringing a pistol into action. I don't want a stupid external safety to have to manipulate under pressure. I will keep any and everything clear of the trigger guard until I am ready to shoot. I don't need or want a gun designer/manufacturer to do my thinking or be safe for me.
There are no accidental discharges, only user error incidents. If you do, or allow, anything to pull, push, squeeze, or otherwise manipulate the trigger when it is anything but pointed where you want to shoot, you have mishandled the gun. It's that simple. In my opinion, an external thumb/grip safety is a crutch for someone who doesn't want to follow the golden rules of gun carry.
#1- Treat all guns as if they are loaded.
#2- Don't point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot.
#3- Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot
Common sense tells us that #3 would also apply to twigs, keys, holster straps and anything else that will fit into the trigger guard.
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***************************
Georgia TFL'ers get together:
May 20, 2000-From 3pm to 6pm
http://www.wolfcreek-gun.com
***************************
R6...aka...Chris
M16,
It takes more than a piece of clothing to actuate a Glock's trigger. Notice the smal safety inside the trigger, you have to provide full pressure to it as the trigger travels rearward. I think that a key or some other tool, fixed against something to provide fulcrum might actuate the trigger. I've never heard of this happening, however.
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So many pistols, so little money.
It takes more than a piece of clothing to actuate a Glock's trigger. Notice the smal safety inside the trigger, you have to provide full pressure to it as the trigger travels rearward. I think that a key or some other tool, fixed against something to provide fulcrum might actuate the trigger. I've never heard of this happening, however.
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So many pistols, so little money.
It's a good thing we're all allowed to disagree. 
Like it or not, not EVERYONE follows those very important safety rules... even though they should. I've shot each caliber Glock and really enjoy them, and have NEVER had a bad experience with one... In fact I plan on buying a 23C when I get a little extra $$$ to burn.
BUT:
I've also had a couple of friends (both informed, new shooters) who have double-tapped by accident due to the Glock's light trigger and MINIMUM RESET distance. An unintended discharge is a dangerous thing. When two responsible adults shoot a round that was UNINTENDED, I no longer tout a gun as being a good first gun. They both learned from it and didn't repeat it. Glocks are for those who absolutely adhere to safety rules. For beginners I always recommend DAO or DA/SA. I also like beginners to have a gun that has multiple-strike capability, even though the slide should be racked on ANY gun that refuses to go BOOM for ANY reason.
You can teach a kid to drive in a Ferrari; but I'm not certain that it's the safest thing to do. PERIOD.
That's just my opinion.
Y'all take care,
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited April 28, 2000).]
Like it or not, not EVERYONE follows those very important safety rules... even though they should. I've shot each caliber Glock and really enjoy them, and have NEVER had a bad experience with one... In fact I plan on buying a 23C when I get a little extra $$$ to burn.
BUT:
I've also had a couple of friends (both informed, new shooters) who have double-tapped by accident due to the Glock's light trigger and MINIMUM RESET distance. An unintended discharge is a dangerous thing. When two responsible adults shoot a round that was UNINTENDED, I no longer tout a gun as being a good first gun. They both learned from it and didn't repeat it. Glocks are for those who absolutely adhere to safety rules. For beginners I always recommend DAO or DA/SA. I also like beginners to have a gun that has multiple-strike capability, even though the slide should be racked on ANY gun that refuses to go BOOM for ANY reason.
You can teach a kid to drive in a Ferrari; but I'm not certain that it's the safest thing to do. PERIOD.
That's just my opinion.
Y'all take care,
Ben
------------------
Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited April 28, 2000).]
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