Glock and Sig

S

SpecialK

Inactive
I like the 9mm round. Been a Glock owner for a while. I'm thinking of acquiring a Sig. Either the P226 or P228. I got to check out a P228 at a local gunshop, it felt pretty good in my hands. Haven't shot it yet at any local ranges. I haven't been able to find a P226 anywhere to check out yet.

How are the P226 and P228 compared to their Glock counterparts? The G17 and G19?

I feel that the G17 is slightly too large for my tastes and the G19 is slightly too small for my tastes. The Sig P228 size seems to be in between the G17 and G19. Am I correct? Is a P226 larger than a G17? If so, then I know the P226 will be too large for me. Even the Beretta 92Fs is too large for me. Is the Beretta 92Fs larger in size than a G17?

I don't particularly like fat grips, which is why I wasn't partial to the Beretta 92Fs which I have ruled out. The P228 seems good to hold, just have to see if any ranges around me have one to rent. Same with a P226, but if the P226 is larger than a G17, then I won't even bother because I know it'll be too large for me.

Is the P228 hard to get? I heard it was for LE only? The one I saw at the gunshop was for sale to the public, but I don't like purchasing display models. Also is the P228 more accurate than the G17 or G19.

I know to each his own, but what has past surveys shown? The G17 or G19 to be more accurate? For me at 25 yards and under the G19 seems to be more accurate for me. Even though the G17 has a longer barrel and longer sight radius. I guess I can attribute the G19 being more accurate because it's better balanced for me.

So , I do prefer the G19 over the G17. I just need to use this information to help me make a decision on whether I should get a Sig P226 or P228 because I want something similar to it in the Sig 9mm offerings.

Also, what are your thoughts on the Beretta 92FS, even though I said that I thought it was too large for my tastes, I like the manual safety, the Sigs don't have that, just the decocking lever.

Is the Sig P226/228 safety 100% effective in preventing the gun from discharging if it is dropped with the hammer cocked? Is it possible to pull the hammer back and let go to fire the gun like a revolver? Can the Sig P228 be dry fired without dummy cartridges? I didn't play around with the P228 too much because I didn't want to break anything accidentally. The salesman told me that other than the difference in size; the P226 and P228 are identically. Is this true? The review on Remtek doesn't seem so, but that is an old article? I also read that the P226 is only stamped to be made in Germany, but the P228 is actually assembled in Germany.

What have test shown of Sigs (P226/P228) compared to Glocks (G17/G19) in terms of reliability, durability, safety and accuracy? If, Sigs are above par or on par or below Glocks then it's good enough for me, but if they are sub par to Glocks, then I won't get a Sig because I use Glocks as the benchmark of what I think a finely made gun is supposed to be.

Also, what is the real story with the military trials in 1985 and how they chose Beretta 92Fs over the Sig P226. That those were the only 2 guns that passed all tests, but the government had to go with Beretta 92Fs because it had a lower bid, otherwise if the price was the same, Sig would have won it easily? And that Glock didn't even participate in the trial because they wouldn't give up their patent right. Then in 1989, Sig P226 won hands down, or was it the P228? Seems like most federal law enforcement agencies favor Sigs over Glocks, whereas local PD and non special forces favor Glocks, and special forces like Navy Seals and British SAS like to the the P226 and P228.

Any thoughts and/or suggestions are much appreciated.
 
Wow! lots of questions luckily I'm not that bright and can only hit on a couple of points;)

Glock doesn't have a second strike capability so I don't believe they would even have qualified for the millitaries initial requirments.

What happened in millitary pistol trials are basically as speculated on as the Kennedy assasination with the same amount of conspiracy theories. The simplest explanation was that SIG and Beretta both did great, but the Beretta was cheaper. FWIW if it makes you feel any better the SIG 228 was approved and is issued as the M-11 for certain missions requiring concealed carry.

The SIG 228 is still available, but millitary and police contracts take precedense over your order so they don't always list it. They would prefer you to buy the 229 in 9mm just so they have one less model to worry about. Go to GunsAmerica and you can likely find one.

Good Luck,
 
Which Do You Like?

Glock's "Safe-Action" trigger system, which is basically
like that found on a double action revolver; or Sig's
SA/DA ignition system. Of course, Sigs SA capeabilitie's
are limited to the first shot.

In comparison, there are two class'es: a) large frame
"duty weapons", which would include Glock's model
17 and Sig's P226; b) medium frame "duty weapons",
and in this category you would find Sig's P228 and
Glock's model 19. You have got to ask yourself, "What
will be the specfic need's of the weapon I choose"?
This will help in determining which route you should
follow. Next, decide what firearm work's for you; as
not all production firearm's work for every person.:eek:

All four weapons mentioned are high quality, finely
crafted handguns; and all four are reliable.:) However,
I personally would have to give the nod to the Sig's,
as from an accuracy standpoint.:D

The Glock's will be less expensive; allowing for the
purchase of more ammo. Glock's would win in a
durability arguement. All in all, both are excellent
firearm's; I just find that Sig's work best for me.

Merry Christmas,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
SIG

>>> What have test shown of Sigs (P226/P228) compared to Glocks (G17/G19) in terms of reliability, durability, safety and accuracy? If, Sigs are above par or on par or below Glocks then it's good enough for me, but if they are sub par to Glocks, then I won't get a Sig because I use Glocks as the benchmark of what I think a finely made gun is supposed to be.

- The SIGs have done well in all the service pistol trials and a magazine did a 10,000 round test on a P220. They are extremely reliable.
- Durability - see above.
- Safety - personally, I like pistols with hammers and external safeties, but the SIGs are in use by quite a few LE agencies, who usually test safety pretty thoroughly.
- From my own experience, I've never fired an out-of-the-box pistol as accurate as my P220. And that includes a Colt Gold Cup Series 70.

It comes down to the range session!
 
Both the Glocks and Sigs are fine pistols, and I carry each of them from time to time. If you are using a Glock as your bechmark, here is how I would compare the Sig.

The Sig is somewhat heavier which may help with recoil management, which aids in quick and accurate follow-up shots.

The Sig is more accurate, generally, out of the box.

The Sig will last every bit as long as a glock, and will take more abuse than many of the members here would be able to dish out. As would the Glock.


The finish on the sigs will not wear as well as the Glock. How will you be using this? Is this an everyday carry gun worn outside the belt where it will be exposed to the elements? Or is this an indoor gun that will be taken to the range on occasion? If you fall into the second group the finish will not be a problem for you. And if you fall into the first group, the finish will not be a problem for you with proper maintenance. Aside from some holster wear, that is.

The sig is the better looking gun. (Whoa, that will start a war!)

I would rate the Sig a couple of steps above the Glock. But both of those guns are so far up the ladder that it is really an inSIGnificant point.

If 228 availability is an issue for you, you may want to look at the 239. I shot one the other day and was impressed. The trigger stroke was a bit long in my opinion, but it was very smooth. People with smaller hands than mine did not find this to be a problem.

Welcome to TFL!
 
I've decided to go with the Sig P228 because it's just the right size for me. I thought the G17 was slightly too large and the G19 was slightly too small, but since the Sig P228 is just in between, then it's perfect.

Without having held a Sig P226, I think it will be too large for me looking at the measurements, it's larger than a G17.

I'm going to have to rule out the Beretta 92Fs for sure, since the measurements are even bigger than the Sig P226.

That just leaves me with the Sig P228. It will be used primarily for range shooting and home defense, and possibly CCW if I ever get the license. Not being someone of a large stature, it would be very difficult for me to conceal a P226 or Beretta 92Fs.

Unless someone talks me out of getting a Sig P228, wish me luck in finding this gun. What's a fair price for it? I've seen it in only one gunstore around me for $650 and another popular gunstore didn't even carry it.

I'm willing to purchase it from an online gunstore, if someone can recommend one that is both reliable and trustworthy. I don't want to pay new price for a gun, when I'm actually being sold used goods.
 
Congrat's SpecialK,

You have selected a very fine firearm, indeed.:) Actually,
I have found that my Sig P228 is as every bit as accurate
as it's bigger brother; the P226.:D You will have many
enjoyable hour's being a proud owner of the P228.:cool:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
I'm having difficulty in finding the Sig P228 anywhere. Calling around, they either don't have it nor are they available to even order for me.

On Sig's web site, it says the P228 is for LE only. I have heard everything from the P228 being discontinued to them only selling to LE/Military. From my understanding, it looks like they are only selling to LE/military but it's not illegal to sell to civilians like the Glock 18.

Since the P228's availability is scarce, I've only been able to find used models and display models for sale. I only purchase NIB and unhandled by anyone other than the people at the Sig factory.

I'm now considering the P229. From looking at their web page, it seems like these two are identical guns. Am I correct?

The only difference that I see is that the P228 is blued and the P229 is two tone colored, but the web site specs for the P229 also says it's available in Nitron finish, which I've read somewhere is longer lasting than the standarding blueing and from their pictures it looks darker in color, which is definitely to my liking.

So wouldn't purchasing a P229 in nitron finish be the better purchase? I also read somewhere that the P228 uses folded sheet metal for their slide, but the P229 like the P226 is made out of solid steel.
 
Yes, what exactly is the difference between P228 and P229?

I understand that P229 was originally designed for .40S&W as well has having a blackened stainless steel slide milled from a single bar, but isn't P228 made like that today?

Similar size gun, same capacity - why does SIG make two?

Skorzeny
 
SpecialK;

In comparison, the Sig-Sauer P228 nd P229 look alike.
The P228 is offered in blue steel, K-Kote, and two-tone
finish'es; likewise the P229 is offered in all of these kind's
of finish'es + Nitron. The P229's slide is crafted from a
solid block of stainless steel; whereas the P228's slide
is made of stamped sheet metal.

Advantage's & Disadvantage's- The P229 seems top
heavy, as it actually weigh's more than the P228. The
P228 is only available in 9m/m; the P229 has greater
potential by being offered in 9m/m, .40S&W, and .357
Sig. Contrary to belief, the Sig P228 is still in production;
but being gobbled up by military and law enforcement
contract's, as its in use by several governmental agency's.

Personal opinion is, having owned both the P228 and
P229; I favor the P228, due to the weight difference.
I sold my P229; but I'm hanging on to my P228. My
personal perference for a CCW piece is a Sig-Sauer
P220A in .45ACP.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
Not to throw a wrench into things but I just picked up a cz75------------------all steel and built like a mule with the beefiest inside of a frame I have ever seen. +P? +P+? No worries. Eastern Bloc ammo? No problem.

Hi Caps, pre-ban, are bountiful at $35.00 each from one vendor I know of.
 
Had a SigSauer P228. VERY nice gun, 100% reliable, but felt kind of funky to me. Now have a CZ-75B that I like better, more because of the very different feel than anything else.
 
The Army CID here in San Antonio carry P228s. SpecialK, why won't you go for a used gun? Guns aren't like cars, made to collapse just after the warranty expires (well, Sigs aren't, anyway :) I've gotten several excellent deals on used guns. If they have been maintained they are virtually the same as new. Sure the finish may be a little scuffed, but this is a gun, not your wife's coffee table. If you have the bug for a P228, nothing else will do, and if it is has been carried a lot but shot a little (like most police trade-ins) it should still be very serviceable. If it is going to be a carry gun, you may be better off getting it refinished anyway. Just my .02. Or get a compact 1911 ;) LAter.
 
SpecialK
Is the grip size the problem with the Beretta 92? I bought a compact type M model and the grip is quite a bit smaller. So is capacity though it only holds 8 (single stack). Great carry gun. plunker
 
P228 vs P229

I might be forced to go through the internet if I want the P228 because the dealers around me are not even able to order one for me. One place wanted $800 for a P229 whereas one other place claimed they could get a P228 for me for $699. The lowest I've seen a P228 is for $549 from someone on the internet. I'm just wary that some people might try to sell a slightly used gun as new. I know if the Sigs are well maintained there is virtually no difference between new and old, but I just feel better with new things. So I'm seriously considering the P229 and need to weigh the pros and cons.

Calling Sigarms, Inc. they said the only difference is the slide. So the P228 is made out of folded sheet metal, this makes it 1 oz. lighter than the P229 which is made out of a solid block of steel. How much does 1 oz. actually weigh? A quarter? Kennedy half dollar? If spread out over the entire slide, I don't see how many people can tell much difference between the two. I also read somewhere that P226 slides used to be made out of folded sheet metal, but it rusted faster as reported by the Navy Seals, so then Sig started making the P226 slides out of a solid block of steel.

So would the advantages of having a P229 over a P228 be that a solid block of steel would be both stronger and more corrosion restistant? Also since the P228 is only availalable in blued or K-Kote (I've heard it's hard to find) and also many who complained the P228s slide rusted more easily than Glocks tennifer coating. The P229 is offered in all the finishes, plus Nitron finish, isn't Nitron more corrosion resistant than the P228's plain blued finish? Sigarm said the K-Kote was blued with a shiny coat, but the girl couldn't go into detail on the technical differences between all the different types of finishes.

So basically, I see that I can get a stronger pistol, more corrosion resistant pistol for the price of carrying a gun that is 1 oz. heavier.
 
Also, what is the real story with the military trials in 1985 and how they chose Beretta 92Fs over the Sig P226. That those were the only 2 guns that passed all tests, but the government had to go with Beretta 92Fs because it had a lower bid, otherwise if the price was the same, Sig would have won it easily?
Click to expand...

Official reason for the Beretta contract was the lower per-unit price. Some (undoubtedly cynical) folks think that the US Gummint gave the pistol contract to Beretta (and by extension Italy) to butter up the Italians for a favorable vote on allowing the US to station cruise missiles in Italy in the mid-Eighties.
 
SpecialK...reconsider going for a pre-owned 228.

I have three SIG's...2-225's and a 226, all in 9mm. All are pre-owned, all are in excellent shape, and all are wonderful to shoot.

I've a yen for the 228 as well. I like the way it feels. the 229 and its grip don't fit me well.

My 225's are for carry and IDPA, the 226 for range and IPSC. Shooting a Glock 34 as well, and find them all to be fine pistols.

You will lose nothing by going pre-owned (IMHO).
 
To me, the Sig-Sauer P229 feels a bit "top heavy",
whereas the P228 balances perfectly. WARNING:
Stay away from the K-Kote finished weapons; as
the coating will eventually peel off the firearm.
Two-toned Sig's are nice; but shine real well.:eek:
And as a former LEO, that pretty shine draws
attention from perp's. I perfer the standard,
blued weapons; cuz with reasonable care
they will outlast most of the people using
them.:D

Don't feel bad about the price's that you were
quoted; as I gave $550.00 for the P228 w/two
preban high capacity magazine's, and $760.00
+ 8% sales tax for the P229 w/SigLite night
sight's and two ten rounder's.:)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
I bought a new Sig P228 standard blue finish only today (Friday) . I'm glad that they couldn't find the K-Kote version and I didn't know the coating would eventually peel off their guns. I paid $625 + tax + background check fees. I know I could have found it cheaper doing it through the internet, but I like face to face deals in gunstores.

The gun is supposedly new from the distributors warehouse as they had to call around to find it. Even though it will take a few days for them to get the gun to the store, they were able to supply a S/N and I got my paperwork done right away.

I posted this question to another thread about P229s, do all new Sigs come in plastic/shrink wrapped boxes? I'm kind of anal in that I will only buy new and I won't buy the showroom models where many prospective buyers have had their hands on it before.

If it's shrinked wrap then I'll be happy, even though using a shrink wrapped machine is something relatively simple, many retailers have them, I won't be that anal about it. But the salesperson assured me that it was new and not a showroom model and never touched by anyone other than the Sig factory people.

What are the tell take signs that it's been a showroom model and inspected by many people and signs that show it's truly NIB?

BTW: I'm very excited about the P228, it definitely felt a lot more balanced than the top heavy P229.

According to field tests and other people's experience, which gun is more accurate? The P226 or P228? I know from Glocks that the G19 is actually more accurate than the G17, probably due to better balance even though its barrel and sight radius is shorter.
 
Special K,

First thing's first, your new Sig P228 should arrive in a
lockable hard plastic case; with instruction manual,
warranty card, and test target if applicable. It's my
understanding that the Sig's assembled at the plant
in New Hampshire do not come with factory
test target's. This trend started with the advent of
the Sig P229, as the fames are made in Germany;
and the slides are manufactured in Exeter, NH. But.
rest assured if your P228 was manufactured and
assembled in Germany, it should be accompanied
by the factory test target.:D

Now, as for accuracy; IMO the P228 is every bit as
accurate as it's big brother, the P226. Actually, with
it's near perfect balance; I can shoot tighter groups
with the P228.:cool: Glad I remembered to inform
you of the problems with the K-Koted Sig's. I hope
you enjoy your new P228, as much as I have mine.
If I can be of further assistance don't hesitate to
call?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
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