Glock and lead

Wreck-n-Crew said:
Sure he didn't say softer?

Perhaps. I don't reload so I may have gotten it wrong... and I don't have his email address to contact him. There is a link below that may address this more technically. I'll try to contact Larry and get a refreshed version of his story, perhaps without my memory errors.

In the meantime, I found the following, which is a mildly technical explanation of why there are problems when shooting lead in Glocks and what to do to avoid (and changing the barrel isn't mentioned.) This article focuses on BULLET HARDNESS, proper fit of the bullet, and gas checks. (If I read this properly, I may have gotten it a little right in my first post.)

http://www.americanhunter.org/blogs/lead-for-glocks

Another site makes the point that Glock coats the barrel (inside and out) with Tenifer, and this is a rougher surface than unfinished steel.

In the cited article above, Glock says that their barrel (polygonal) barrel design causes lead bullets to move forward and DRAG more as they start to spin. This causes lead to build up near the chamber, which is exactly what we saw when cleaning the Glock 17 used by my son during his BLT program.

Glock also makes the point that the lead used either in hand loads or in commercially-produced bullets tends to be vary across the board in levels of hardness, while jacketed bullets tend to be more consistent.
 
Last edited:
Oh boy, here we go again let's do it again. Beat this dried up corpse of a horse one more time. Glock says not to but they also say not to use reloads. In fact, I'm sure any and all gun manufacturers say not to road and I'm sure they do so for liability reasons. A company cannot warranty other people's mistakes it's just not possible and lead bullets are just another place where mistakes can be made if they are not sized properly and of the proper hardness for the application and then lubed correctly then you'll get leading in anything. The deal with glocks barrels seems to be that when leading does occur, the grooves for the lead to get pushed into do not exist, so the bore diameter starts to close, as this happens pressures rise or at least that is the theory. I shoot lead in my glock 9mm have not shot it out of my .40. I keep a close eye on things and my guns get cleaned spotless every range trip regardless if it's ten rounds fired or two hundred. I have gotten some leading but not like they say. A gun maker cannot count on everyone to do the same and even then doing so is not a guarantee against mishaps. The best advice someone can give someone else is to buy another barrel. This way nobody's taking any chances real or perceived.
 
It seems odd that lead buildup from lubricated bullets will reduce the inside diameter of the barrel enough (some claim to .25 caliber) to raise pressures to the ranges claimed.
Odd that one would build up that much even after a few hundred rounds or more. All the people I know that shoot cast don't shoot to many (50-200) without checking the barrel for lead. Even funnier how we see a barrel with a good bit of lead (yet more than 50% of the barrel still clean) and we freak out. Go scrambling to scrub it. Trying to find answers to the cause and fix it ( i admit I am one of them) :D . If I ever see a 9mm so leaded up that the diameter was a .32 caliber it would be a first for me too much less a .25!.

I guess you know how it is to get to the truth of the matter. So much misinformation out there it's not funny. Makes it hard to see through the smoke. Some without intention and some with malice. Some views are based on little data and comprehension on what they have experienced too. That adds to missing data that might clear things up for most.
 
I have a G30s and a G21, I have shot lots of lead bullets through them both and have seen no leading. Recently I tried some coated bullets fom Bayou Bullets and found them to work very well. I shot their 200 swc and their 225 truncated cone bullets.
 
I'm fairly new to reloading lead cast so I'm just a rookie--but the thing about firing cast bullets I don't believe is an "either you can or you can't" so much as knowing what to look for and knowing what the consequences are. As velocity and pressure go up--that same lead bullet is going to behave differently--that's why I think there is no absolute rule one way or the other that can be applied to all calibers and/or all guns.
 
I've heard all of the warnings, and seen some Glocks that kaboomed (different issue, I know), but I've never seen or talked with anyone who has actually seen a Glock damaged from shooting lead.

Has anyone here seen this maybe-mythical beast or observed such damage?
 
but I've never seen or talked with anyone who has actually seen a Glock damaged from shooting lead.

Has anyone here seen this maybe-mythical beast or observed such damage?
Not me. Only hear people say it and others dispute it. Seems like it is overblown to me. I actually see more people dispute it than declaring it to be true.

Buffalo Bore says it isn't true! https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=59
Says it came from shooting soft lead in them years ago
Pure lead or nearly pure lead bullets have a tendency to foul any barrel, not just polygonal barrels. Years ago, when several Glock pistols experienced cracked barrels because of fouling build up from shooting pure lead bullets, Glock issued a warning not to shoot lead bullets in their polygonal barrels. From that warning, the myth that you should not shoot hard cast bullets in polygonal barrels was born.
Makes much more since to me!
 
I've never seen or talked with anyone who has actually seen a Glock damaged from shooting lead.

Has anyone here seen this maybe-mythical beast or observed such damage?
I was in the clubhouse when a shooter came in with the pieces of his Glock. The armorer pointed out that the bore showed severe lead fouling. The shooter, though otherwise uninjured suffered some memory loss. He couldn't remember what kind of ammo he had been shooting. :D

After he left, his friend acknowledged that the ammo was lead bullet reloads. Of course, it could have been a reloading mistake, not a result of the fouling. It's hard to say.

Some years ago, either on TFL or THR, a member posted about blowing up his Glock 19 after shooting a box of lead bullet ammo and then following it with a single round of jacketed ammo.

MarkCO, (Mark Passamaneck) a member on TFL and a co-author of "The Glock In Competition" blew up one of his Glocks using lead reloads. Being a forensic engineer, he studied the issue and determined the cause. He went further and tried to develop a rule of thumb that would allow a person to safely shoot lead through Glock rifling. He found that harder bullets did show less leading, but he was unable to find a recipe that would completely preclude the problem. He found that the factors involved would not allow him to develop a rule of thumb that would allow the safe use of lead bullets in Glock rifling. He stopped shooting lead bullets and started reloading plated bullets for his Glocks.

There are a few issues involved.

The nature of the Glock rifling can make leading difficult to detect.

For whatever reason, even apparently identical Glocks will lead very differently when shooting the same loading. Passamaneck experimented with two outwardly identical Glocks using the same loading. One, after having fired only 75 rounds, exhibited twice the effects of pressure increase as the other pistol did after having fired 300 rounds. That's double the effect from 4 times fewer rounds. It's not so much that every single Glock out there will lead badly and blow up after a box of ammo--it's that it's not possible to tell ahead of time how badly any given Glock will lead-foul.

Shooting leaded rounds followed by jacketed rounds can be a problem in any gun. Allan Jones, of Speer recommends against it, stating he has seen many guns damaged by the practice. Beretta states that it should NEVER be done (their emphasis) and places the warning in their pistol manuals. I suspect that this problem (combined with the difficulty of detecting leading in Glock bores) is a big part of the reason Glock finally started warning against lead bullets.

By the way, Gale McMillan (noted barrel-maker & benchrest shooter) provided a general warning about leading in polygonal rifled barrels. If you believe that he knew what he was talking about, it would seem that this problem isn't specific to Glocks.

If you've been shooting lead in your Glock pistol without incident and you keep doing exactly what you've been doing, you're probably going to be ok. If you change anything there's no accurate recipe for determining if the change will cause a problem or not. Passamaneck states that he had about 20K rounds of lead bullet reloads through his Glocks before he finally pushed things a little too far in one shooting session and blew a pistol up.
Glock says not to but they also say not to use reloads.
This is another complication to this problem. Because the warning not to use reloads is very common (and very commonly ignored) many people assume that it's always ok to ignore it. They feel that it's just the standard lawyerese that all gunmakers put in their manuals. In this case, it seems that there might actually be a little more to it than that.
 
I have used lead bullets extensively in Glocks from the mid 1990s, traditionally sized and lubed and also swaged and coated bullets. The twist rate in the .45 ACP appears to cause less leading and better accuracy while the 9mm definitely needed harder alloys and is also the faster boolit.

I noticed a slight decline in accuracy after about 100 to 150 rounds of lead through the 9mm guns that was easily addressed by a cleaning but have LWD and Stormlake barrels for increased accuracy with lead bullets and in 40/9 conversions.

As it was mentioned, Glock advises against using reloads of any kind and bullet set-back is probably much more dangerous than the use of properly prepared and sized lead bullets.
 
MarkCO, (Mark Passamaneck) a member on TFL and a co-author of "The Glock In Competition" blew up one of his Glocks using lead reloads. Being a forensic engineer, he studied the issue and determined the cause. He went further and tried to develop a rule of thumb that would allow a person to safely shoot lead through Glock rifling. He found that harder bullets did show less leading, but he was unable to find a recipe that would completely preclude the problem. He found that the factors involved would not allow him to develop a rule of thumb that would allow the safe use of lead bullets in Glock rifling. He stopped shooting lead bullets and started reloading plated bullets for his Glocks.
To date that is the most interesting bit on leading in Glocks and leading being the cause of barrel to rupture that i have encountered. Kind of took the idiot with pure lead and hot rounds out of the equation.

It's hard to get the truth out of what seems exaggerated rumor. It helps to have some source who has a little common sense and understanding on what caused it.
 
wouldn't it take a tremendous amount of leading to rupture a barrel ? Also isn't it true that glock 45's have octagonal rifling and other caliber glocks have polygonal rifling ?
 
I have 2 glock 21s....I reload, one factory barrel leads like crazy unless I load hard lead at low speeds, the other doesn't lead up no matter what I try.....go figure.

I bought a lone wolf barrel to try out...very happy with it!
 
Not to be contentious, but anybody who thinks that softer lead fouls Glock barrels less than harder lead is ill-informed. Yep, I shoot hundreds of thousands of rounds through Glocks, and I am a class 06 ammo manufacturer. ;)
 
Also isn't it true that glock 45's have octagonal rifling and other caliber glocks have polygonal rifling ?
All Glocks have polygonal rifling. Most have hexagonal rifling--polygonal rifling with 6 sides--but it is true that the .45 caliber Glocks have octagonal rifling. Octagonal rifling is polygonal rifling with 8 sides.
 
Not to be contentious, but anybody who thinks that softer lead fouls Glock barrels less than harder lead is ill-informed. Yep, I shoot hundreds of thousands of rounds through Glocks, and I am a class 06 ammo manufacturer.
What about that same soft lead bullet being pushed hot at high velocity?
 
Back
Top