Glock and lead

R

Roland Thunder

New member
I have heard that you should not shoot lead ammo from a Glock (without buying an aftermarket barrel for it). I have 1 45 and it's a Colt 1911 and I have 4 or 5 9mm's so I am thinking of adding another 45. I don't want another 1911 (for variety reason, mainly, just want something different. I am considering a Glock 21 or maybe an M&P 45 or 45c. Not sure about the M&P because of the trigger (I had an M&P 45c and sold it).

The lead ammo thing might be a deal breaker though as I re-load with lead regularly.
 
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Polygon rifling in the Glocks and higher pressures. You can get leading. You will find people on both sides of the debate.
 
I read up a lot about the issue of polygonal rifling and cast bullets when I bought my USP, not because I had any interest in shooting them but just because the explanations I've heard about "leading" from people in the general public have been a little bit lacking. The information I've found has been spotty and contradictory but I did find this interesting post on a cast bullets forum:

When the Glock17 first came out, there was no lead bullet warning. I shot 1000s thru the OEM bbl, 3K w/o cleaning. It finally blew the extractor out. So lead bullets & poly rifling, just clean the bbl often, like every 200rds or so. Higher pressure rounds, keeping the bbl clean is even more important.
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http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222837-Cast-Lead-In-Pistols-With-Polygonal-Rifling

I'm no way able to evaluate the credibility of this post, however, this is the most compelling explanation I've read for why manufacturers would discourage people from shooting cast bullets through their polygonal barrels and yet so many people have also reported shooting thousands of cast bullets through their polygonal barrels with no problems.

Again, I have very little knowledge on this subject, so I'm interested to hear what more knowledgeable people have to say.
 
I, too, read a lot on the issue. At first, I found it hard to believe and simply could not figure out why or how a polygonal barrel could lead so much as to elevate pressures to the danger point, even with the notoriously inadequate case support of Glock barrels.

But I have seen enough from reasonable people (not extreme Glock lovers or haters) that I am convinced there is something to the stories. I still don't see why, or understand how bullets skidding in the barrel (usually given as the cause) can result in enough lead buildup to raise pressures as much as claimed. But I am convinced enough that if I wanted to shoot a Glock very much with lead bullets, I would get another barrel.

That being said, I can see no reason to shoot a Glock that much; I am not a fan of them and don't like them very much, though I admit that they are highly reliable and generally give excellent service.

Jim
 
Glock says themselves that the polygonal rifling is designed to work specifically with jacketed bullets, and is easier to engrave, and thus gives higher velocities than regular rifling.
They recommend against lead only projectiles in their pistols.
 
I shot wheelweight 45's through my 21sf exclusively and it had ZERO leading. I can't say the same for my CZ 97b. I heeded the warning regardless and ran a swab down the barrel every range trip but frankly I found no evidence of lead deposits.

Glock doesn't have traditional polygonal rifling. It's a smoothbore with 'speedbumps' as I like to call it. True poly rifling looks more like a stopsign in cross section, Glock doesn't have that.
 
It's not so much an issue in the. 45 as it is in the 9mm and .40. 9 and 40 operate at much higher pressures than 45. That combined with the wrong hardness lead and the sharp edge in the throat make for a bad combo. I put several thousand lead bullets through my G35 without issue but it took a lot of trial and error to find the right combination.
 
Yes--a velocity vs hardness issue. I wonder if the poly-coated lead bullets would work in Glocks in those situations. I replace the barrels anyway for better case support--but the new 40's coming out are conventional rifled and offer better case support for the higher power loads AFAIK.

Something interesting that I did not know that a lead bullet manufacturer told me--lead bullets generally have more contact with the bore/rifling than a copper jacketed bullet--yet has less drag on the bore than a jacketed design of similar weight/powder charge.
 
Glock says not to use unjacketed lead in their barrels. I'm sure they said it for some reason. It's easy enough not to do this. But, if I felt compelled to use unjacketed bullets, I'd just buy the lone wolf barrel like suggested above.

I'm sure one magazine of pure lead won't harm anything; but if you're going to make your Glock a lead-hose, why take the chance?
 
Long ago I rented and fired a G17, and had to use the range reloads. Which were unjacketed lead bullets.

I was very unhappy with this new design since I could not even get a hole in the target at maybe 40 yards, or less (I can't remember, just that it was max distance on the indoor range).

I held left, I aimed right, I could not make a hole :eek:

Finally I managed to wound the target, reeled it in, and found that the bullet went through it sideways!

So yeah, lead bullets and range rental Glocks do not go together.

Bart Noir
 
You'd have to definitely get a aftermarket barrel for lead rounds in a glock. Be sure to check out the Ruger SR45, great gun at a great price and should feel familiar coming from a 1911.
 
I bough a G30 and wanted to shoot reloads and I ended up buying an EFK Fire Dragon barrel for mine. I had to fit it to work in my gun but it has worked well over the years. It improved the accuracy and the chamber is way tighter than a stock Glock barrel so you will want to carefully check your reloading to make sure the cartridges will feed smoothly. I think it was a good investment.
 
It improved the accuracy and the chamber is way tighter than a stock Glock barrel so you will want to carefully check your reloading to make sure the cartridges will feed smoothly.
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also true of the Lone Wolf barrel. running handloads through a Lee FCD is what mae it work for me.
 
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When I reload for my glock 20 which I installed the EFK hunter barrel on I remove the barrel and it becomes part of the reload process--after the final seating and crimping each round is "drop tested" into the chamber by holding the barrel muzzle down--the round should drop with no resistance so that the face of the rim is flush with the face of the chamber hood ramps. If it doesn't pass (which is quite often with lead bullets) the bullet gets pulled and I start over again with the case. The tolerances on my ten are so tight that even the degree of springback from one manufacturer's case to another can make a difference in how the bullet seats. Underwood cases seem tio be the best so far--not surprising since they make high-power loads.
 
One of the guys who ran some classes for members of our IDPA club, Larry Brown, was a highly-ranked IPSC shooter for many years. He has since worked with the Special Ops troops at Ft. Bragg as an instructor. He's a great instructor and an outstanding shooter.

He shoots Glocks and uses lead.

He said the secret was getting the right size bullet and the right mix of lead and alloys (i.e., a harder mix). When he was active in IPSC, he shot thousands of lead rounds a month using Glocks without problems.

Larry shot his first IDPA qualifier with our IDPA club, and shot MASTER Stock Service Pistol using a new-in-box Glock (that belonged to a friend of his) and his own reloads.

My son used my Glock 17 when he went through the academy when he first become an LEO. (Everyone else, except one LEO getting his certification, used the school's S&W 5906s.) The students in that class shot a lot, and they had a number of problems iwth the S&Ws. My son came in second in overall scores, bested only by the LEO shooting his own Glock 22, and jacketed ammo. The point difference was minor. The Glock 17 was trouble-free. MY son hadn't really shot a lot prior to the LEO training.

We checked the 17 each night after a range session, and there was only minor leading obvious; I saw a lot more lead build up shooting revolvers with lead bullets.

If you use lead, get the right mix and size the bullets properly. Otherwise check the gun after each range sessions until you do. (If you go out and shoot hundreds or thousands of rounds before checking, you might have a problem.)
 
My personal experiences with lead in Glocks has been more in line with what Buffalo Bore says:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=59

True hard cast bullets (as opposed to lead swaged bullets) that are properly lubed will not lead foul polygonal barrels any more than any other type of rifled barrel.....Provided you use real hard cast bullets with good lube, you can shoot them all you like in polygonal barrels without causing lead fouling deposits at the front of your chamber or anywhere else in the barrel.
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My son and I have been shooting 4 different classes at GSSF (Glock Sport Shooting Foundation) matches for the past 5 or 6 years. We shoot at least 4 or 5 matches per year. The guns are required to be completely stock, no aftermarket barrels. We have one gun for each class that we both use:

Sub Compact - G26 (9mm)
Civilian - G17 (9mm)
Competition - G17L (9mm)
Heavy Metal - G21 (.45ACP)

The only kind of ammo any of these guns have ever seen is cast lead. Each gun sees about 500 rounds per person every year in just the actual competition alone. That's 1,000 rounds per year for each gun (both shooting the same gun) just at the matches.

At the very least (reality is much more), each gun sees twice as many practice rounds and range play rounds as competition rounds. That would be 2,000 practice rounds per year at a minimum. That's less than 2 boxes per month for each of us. In reality, it's not uncommon to go out with friends and run several hundred rounds per person through each gun.

So anyway, a conservative lead round count is 3,000 rounds per year, per gun, for 5 years.

That would be 3,000 rounds x 4 guns x 5 years = 60,000 total rounds of lead (15,000 rounds per gun) over the last 5 years with zero leading and no problems at all.

My experience has been that the conventionally rifled barrels in my 1911's and my son's M&P's lead much worse than the Glocks.

I also ignore the Glock (and every other manufacturer) "No Reloads" rule, so take it for what it's worth.
 
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I can personally tell you that coated bullets can be shot through stock Glock barrels with no issues. The very low cost of coated bullets ($2-$3 per 1,000) is a cheap insurance policy with other benefits (doesn't smoke like lead). Even an after market barrel can get lead due to load, lead hardness, barrel bore diameter, etc.

On another note some people swear they shoot nothing but lead through their stock Glock barrels without issues. I think it is possible to shoot through a Glock barrel without issues. I think they are more finicky than standard grooves. However I am no expert and even though I have shot tonnes of cast bullets and now cast and coat my own. I do however find there is plenty of truth from the experts and guys that's been doing it for years about cast bullets and leading. If you ask me the Glock barrel adds something to the equation that gives it a bad rap with cast bullets. If I am right, the load, diameter, hardness (BHN) and load (charge) must be closer to being correct than in a gun with standard rifling.

(i.e., a harder mix)
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Sure he didn't say softer? Harder mixes cause more leading than softer mixes a majority of the time, though harder sometimes is better, it depends on what your shooting (caliber, pressure, velocity). If it was 10mm I would say it might have needed a little more hardening at the time. Most cast Commercial bullets are harder than ever and in some cases too hard. The biggest Issues I see are with 45acp, revolvers (different problems there),45colt, 44 special, .38 special, or any one loading light bunny poots.

Bullet obturation easy easier to achieve with softer lead than hard. If the lead is too hard it won't obturate easily. Also if the load is to light it will fail to obturate (expand and seal the bore) and hot gases will cause the lead to melt, leaving streaks of lead in the barrel.

There are other causes of leading not mentioned and most left out are about revolvers for the most part, so I'll stop here. If people want to know more about bullets and leading there are tonnes of information out there. Some better than others. One of my favorites In this chapter of "From Ingot to Target: a Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners" By Glen E. Fryxell
Robert L. Applegate found here: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm
 
Yet seemingly responsible people claim that firing lead bullets WILL raise pressures to the point of blowing up the gun. Again, I don't necessarily dispute that, but I wish I had a better understanding of why that happens. Lead deposits are common when firing soft lead bullets, even with lubrication. It seems odd that lead buildup from lubricated bullets will reduce the inside diameter of the barrel enough (some claim to .25 caliber) to raise pressures to the ranges claimed.

Glock has cited some experiments that seem to bear out the reports of pressure increases from the use of lead bullets, but at the same time puts out a mild "recommendation"; if the use of lead bullets actually could cause guns to blow up and injure shooters, I would think Glock would set forth a warning in large type and red letters.

So, sez I, what is really going on?

Jim
 
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