Glock 20

N

Nightcrawler

New member
As you all know, the choice of which full-sized auto to get this summer has been chewing my brains up. I had narrowed it down to .45 ACP, though I'd still love a 10mm.

I've babbled enough about .45, so let's talk about 10mm. There have been plenty of threads on which 10mm one should buy, and from what I've read the Glock 20 is the most viable option in terms of cost, reliability, and warranty (by warranty, I mean, we've all heard horror stories about EAA).

There's a problem. The full sized Glock frames don't quite seem to fit my hand. This puzzles me, as double stack .45s like the Para, USP, etc. don't bother me at all. I don't know what it is about the Glock, and I can't pin it down, as there are no rental ranges in my area and I don't know anyone that owns a Glock 20/21.

I think the trouble MIGHT BE (and I'd have to handle one again to narrow it down better) the squarish edges of the weapon's grip. Is there anything one can do to get around this? Slip on grips, perhaps?

I am not at all disagreeable with the idea of customizing. "How do you customize a Glock?" Good question. Some things I've thought of:

-Grip Reduction. ARS or others will do it for $125-200. I don't like the texturing ARS puts on theirs, but I can ask them not to do that. The downside is that I've heard this voids the warranty, but I'm not sure. Can somebody clarify?

-Slide refinishing. I'd like to get the slide redone in nickel, hard chrome, or something else sort of shiny or stainlessey looking, like Robar's NP3 finish. The two-tone bit looks great.

-Rebarrelling. I think a Jarvis extended and threaded barrel would look bad@$$, if not being particularly useful.


The Glock 20 appeals to me not so much because I'm a foamy Glock fanatic who thinks that Gaston Glock is some kind of shining, gleaming, golden man-god, but because it has a lot of features that are interesting, and it's very versatile. You can hunt with it, defend yourself, have high capacity (assuming I splurge $100+ bucks for a 15 round mag, and that's assuming I can find one, now that CDNN is out), carry concealed, even change calibers (though I think that's illegal in MI). You can get the Mech-Tech CCU and have a neato carbine, even.

There are things I don't like about the Glocks. THESE ARE JUST MY PREFERENCES, so all you Glock faithful need not call me on blashpheeming.

Aside from the awkward grip, I'd prefer some kind of manual safety, or a grip safety. I know, I know, slows you down, unnecessary, etc, but it would be a nice OPTION. I don't consider it critical, though, as my revovler won't have a manual safety either.

The trigger isn't as nice as I'd like, but once you become a FAL shooter like me you're not real picky about triggers anyway.

Those three things notwithstanding, I have no problems with the weapons as a group. The grip problem is the primary reason I have, in past, said I wouldn't buy a Glock, but the lure of the 10mm cartridge might even help me put that aside.

Any advice or input is appreciated. For once, I don't have to put in my "and please don't tell me to get a Glock" disclaimer (you know the TFL Glock Rule, upon asking any question within four or five posts someone will suggest a Glock). :D
 
Sounds like you are still making this big decision.

I don't about carrying the 20 concealed. I carry a 27, which is thinner and shorter and it's still kinda chunky when you throw the IWB holster in there. Of course you are up north and I'm in AZ.

I know people will moan about this but can you get 10mm locally and does it cost a lot? Orr... do you have an objection to waiting a couple of days from an online ammo source at a good price?

But then again you said that the Glock doesn't really feel right. Could be the finger grooves? If you add the cost of grip reduction, you are back to HK price range which I though was too expensive and so you went back to a CZ vs. a 1911 or something similar. I can't remember, lotsa threads.

Man, all I have to say is that I'm really interested in what you are finally going to end up buying and how long it takes before you really want the one that you almost bought instead. Good luck :D
 
Well, I can get the grip reduction LATER, you see, when I have money again.

There isn't going to be any of the gun store owner telling me I can pay the last $200 of the price of the pistol LATER, you know? $800 for a USP is a lot of money for me to drop down (and it'd be over 1K once you tacked on things like the $50 a pop post-ban magazines). Either way, that's still a .45, and I'm interested in the 10mm.

(Somewhere along the line I seem to have given the impression that I absolutely had my heart set on a USP-45. If I had my heart set on anything, I wouldn't be racking up my post count like this, now would I? ;) )

It's not that I couldn't afford an $800 pistol, it's that I'd prefer not to spend that much. (I'm trying to force myself to be frugal. Got bills to pay.) All the accessories and mods I talked about can be done over time, so as not to pile all the costs in my lap at once.

I doubt I'd carry a full sized piece much anyway, but lotsa people do carry full sized handguns. *shrug*

Anyway, my local dealer stocks plenty of 10mm, but I prefer to buy in bulk online anyway. You save money that way.

You do bring up an interesting point, however. If I were to buy the Glock 20, it'd ONLY be because I was interested in the cartridge, not because I really wanted a Glock. Don't they always say you should get a gun you like first and worry about caliber second, or something like that? Hmm.
 
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Glock 20.


Darn fine gun.

CCW with it isn't a huge issue (for me anyway), except in the very hot summer time, which is also why the 10mm G-29 now appeals to me even more. It was friggin' 91 degrees here today, and I'm not anywhere near what a rational person would call a "Southern state." :eek:

Hand sizes differ, so I can't help you there. I have large hands, and the G-20's grip feels fine. :)

Both the G-20 & 29 accept aftermarket barrels in .357 Sig and .40S&W. Being 3-in-1 guns, with only a barrel swap needed to effect a caliber change, and using the stock 10mm mags & recoil assemblies, they're instantly Gaston's most versatile Glocks.

It was recently reaffirmed to me how that flexing polymer frame absorbs recoil energy, thereby dampening the "felt recoil" that your hand receives once the trigger's pulled. I tested some of Texas Ammo's "10mm Express" ammo, which is simply the 10mm cartridge loaded to it full-power specs, or a bit more. I shot both their 200gn loadings which use Hornady bullets (XTPs & FMJ-FPs) launching @ 1250 fps (694ft-lbs). Yeah, reloaders can probably do better, but if you don't reload, that's smokin' for "factory" ammo.

My report is posted here:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=84117

You're right to want at least one 10mm pistol.

Either Glock 10mm would make an excellent choice, depending on what your specific need is. IMO, the S&W 10mms are also excellent pistols, perhaps the best, most reliable large-framed autoloaders Smith ever made.

I've enjoyed the h*ll out of both my 10mm pistols. Good luck.

HTH.

:cool:
 
Somewhere along the line I seem to have given the impression that I absolutely had my heart set on a USP-45. If I had my heart set on anything, I wouldn't be racking up my post count like this, now would I?
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Hahah, you got me. I posted a lot on this forum, decided to go the way of blades and knifemaking, hung out at bladeforums.com and now am on both. When I was here before I remember you being confused about what pistol to get. This is probably 12 to 9 months ago? Then I came back and read about how you as a lefty liked the USP and I was like "hey, I got one of those so I can give a little input." That's how I remember it. Then I saw the post on the 1911 vs CZ (can't remember if that is right ) and thought "hmm... I guess he didn't make up his mind yet." Now you have reconsidered the 10mm.

I've got to say if I made my mind up on 10mm, I'd go Glock for sure. Of course if I wanted more "power" than the ACP then I have that 450 SMC ammo from Triton's giveaway to shoot in my stock USP. Let me be the first to say if you don't want a 450 SMC I'll pay for the shipping if you don't want the free ammo!:D Even for the really specialized applications you have the swell .40 Super for banging in the boonies if you so desire.

And then once you decide on any caliber you choose the cartridge - bullet weight/construction and velocity. Do you want to carry heavy for deeper penetration ala 200s/180s or more near the 135s for violent expansion.

Round and round and round it goes.

Yeah, the Glock is indeed a great gun. Heck, in the 29 you get the option of optimal concealment with the normal baseplate or you can go with the larger baseplate for more comfort and a full hand grip. I agree that the 20 wouldn't be that difficult to conceal, heck, I can get away with my USP .45 full sized mexican carry BUT there are waaay better choices, especially if you are out on the town with a lady. Just MHO.
Say you get the G20. Do you think you'll have an issue with the mag release? I would if it were mounted on the same side as my trigger hand but again that's just me. Me being right handed I have no problem with the Glock controls although I do prefer the HK US style mag release on the trigger guard (versus Euro on the P7PSP) or frame mounted button like almost all others.

But really, I think you are having such a tough choice because they are ALL good. Hell even if you got the USP you'd want something else because they are ALL SO CLOSE. That's just the nature of things and I think I've also realized why so many people have such a large collection.

But for real... if you truly want a 10mm I again feel that Glock is really the way to go here. As a side thought, $100+ for a magazine is insane. Even the people I've talked to around here, with the laws being the way they are here (PRO FIREARM) carry castarated mags on the street to avoid the hassle of even "legit" full capacity magazines. Out in the bush it's a different story, however.

Finally, if you get a Glock, will you carry with one in the pipe? You say you like the manual safety lever, so you might have some trepidation about this. They aren't necessary by any means but I do like condition 1.

Just some thoughts...
 
I think the trouble MIGHT BE (and I'd have to handle one again to narrow it down better) the squarish edges of the weapon's grip. Is there anything one can do to get around this? Slip on grips, perhaps?
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If the problem is the squarish edges, then I have trouble seeing how making the grip longer and wider to give it a rounded shape will help.
 
Handled a Glock 21 yesterday

There were two Glock 21s in Gander Mountain yesterday, a new and a used. I handled both (couldn't quite get a proper grip due to the Gander Mountain trigger lock). The used one had a rubber grip sleeve on it that covered up the molded plastic finger grooves.

That actually made the pistol comfortable to hold. Still large, but not uncomfortable.

Who makes Glock 20/21 rubber grip sleeves like this, where can I get one (should I decide on the Glock 20), and how much does it cost?
 
I have..

a G20. I'm fairly small at 5'7" but I can get used to it.

Recoil is considerably less than I would have suspected. Glock triggers are pretty poor compared to good SA's. You need to reload if you're getting a 20. It takes some getting used to, and you can load down for practice, then load up for hard core stuff. The 20 seems to handle lighter loads well. It's also pretty accurate.

I had a real hard time getting used to the no safety thing (and like you, no, I don't want to hear a bunch of crap from Glockers). Carrying a Glock with one in the pipe is no different than a cocked and unlocked 1911. Pull the trigger and it goes bang (intended or not). You can get the trigger block that pushed out and gives you a real safety.

I trust you've considered a Delta Elete. 1911 in 10mm.
 
As far as the no manual safety..

Cominolli makes a aftermarket manual safety for the Glock.

Unfortunately, it's only on the left side of the gun, so could be awkward for your left-handed needs.
 
I have a Glock 20 and love it. As far as the "no manual safety" well, that was the main reason that I bought a Glock.
 
I have a Glock 20 w/ hi-caps and love it. It is as you say large in the grip frame as most double stacks are. As for the slip on grip sleeve Hogue makes them and they are around $8.00.

If you get one and decide on a grip reduction Robar has the best that I have seen.

Good luck:)
 
Loaded Glock no Different than a Cocked and Unlocked 1911

...except for 4-5 pounds of trigger

The Hogue Handall might be the answer for you. Buy one; its only $8 or so. You won't be sorry you went with 10mm.
 
The only thing that concerns me is the finger grooves on the new model glocks. I don't think they fit my hands very well.

Will the Hogue grip sleeve cover these up in case they don't match my hand?

Also, if I do decide on a grip reduction, does this void the warranty?
 
Well, once you go to "the dark side"

you may do like I did and get an M6 tactical light that slips on the bottom rail. One of the "knocks" was that lasers aren't bright enough. I can see this one on the target in daylight with no problem. The flashlite is also extremely bright for it's size. My one concession to "tactical". The G20 is my "at night, house gun".

The G20 is good as is, or you can go the hard core Glocker's route and add an aftermarket barrel, lightweight trigger kit, night sites, titanium firing pin, hi-cap mag, different weight recoil springs, add a real manual safety, and get the grip re-worked.


I try to advise everyone that has a 10mm to get into reloading. You'll go broke shooting 'cause the G20 is so much fun to shoot.
 
Its hard to explain, but the Hogue kind of creates a new set of finger grooves, much larger ones. You might like it and you might not, you'll just have to try. I have one on my G34 race gun and I like it.

I don't think anything done to the frame will void Glock's unspoken lifetime warranty, unless it KB'ed. But if you need a smaller grip, just go with a different pistol. Don't do that to a innocent, caring Glock 20.
 
ONLY GUN I SOLD

M20, ARS grip reduction (nice job!), Jarvis hard-fit barrel (nice job!), MMC rear / Heinie front, titanium striker / custom 'trigger' parts - 3lb perfect trigger, still didn't 'like' it.

Sold it.

Next 10mm will be a Witness (because, after seven years experience will three of them, I'm used to Witness troubles) or, if funds permit, another custom Caspian 1911.

That's me.

Your results may vary.
Ask Carbon_15.
 
Did you sell it 'cause you don't like the trigger?

That might be an issue for me. As much as I like the 10mm cartridge, and the idea of that combined with high capacity, the first handgun I ever shot was a 1911 and had that ingrained in me on what a trigger should be. I'll say this; for a cheapo Charles Daly with reliability problems, it sure had a nice trigger.
 
NO

The trigger (I did all the work and parts installation/customizing) was flat out awesome, much like a perfect 1911 trigger. Absolute best part of my example, and impressive to all who touched it.

Didn't like the gun.
Not sure why; balance, feel, the way you can feel it unloading when you're shooting, something.

I've not found any plastic- or aluminum-framed auto-gun that feel right to me.

I really am a metal-head.
 
on the Glock trigger

I started with a 1911 when I was 8 or so. While it's certainly not a 1911, the Glock trigger is just fine. Once you learn how to use the short reset you will find as a combat weapon it works as intended.

As far as the mod affecting the warranty... if you had to worry about the warranty (something broke or pistol "doesn't work right") then I'd hope it wasn't a function of the grip reduction. Theoretically, the pistol should have functioned or made to function before the reduction. If after the reduction it doesn't work, then maybe the reduction did something, but I really don't see how it would affect the reliability given what the reduction does (fill backstrap with epoxy or some polymer and grind to shape) unless it altered the harmonics of the slide somehow. Then if you get frame battering I think you'd have an issue - but keep in mind, I haven't read about it ever happening.

I also think the gunplumber (Mark?) at ARS does great work. If I were to have a Glock's grip reduced I'd have him do it.

And (IMO!) you don't need warranty if a spring breaks or needs to be replaced, things like that. Glocks are wonderfully easy to work on once you spend a little time to see how everything fits together.
 
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