Glock 20 Fire Dragon project

Those sights are kinda cool. I need to check those out from other angles to see how they please the eye. KKM makes some nice barrels too! YOu have to shoot it at night! (get the real meaning of fire dragon):D

Though slight, there is still approximately 30 to 50 +/- fps gain--every little bit helps (almost 100 ftlbs energy in some loads).
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Actually you lose a little with the ported barrel. Not sure how much exactly but probably break near even on the deal.

Ported barrel never helped my g22 much as far as muzzle rise goes but I believe it Might be more noticeable on a 10mm for sure.
 
The OP only gains velocity compared with a factory gun on the extended ported barrel on his G20, because the barrel is longer before the porting than a factory barrel.

The long slide 10mm Glocks aren't out on the market quite yet. We just know that Glock will have them out to us soon. And oh, I really like stippling. It's just a matter of taking the plunge.
 
Even excluding the ported portion of the length, the difference is still significant (approx. .83"), moreover, the chamber is tighter and the case support is greater, presumably providing better seal, less expansion and less gas flow back. If you fire a full-power load like the underwood (basically a 357 mag strength load coming out of that little case) you will most definitely see--and feel--the differences between the two barrels.

As soon as the winter snowpack melts off and the temperatures rise to a reasonable level I will chrony the differences--I'm curious myself what the velocity differences really are.

 
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My whole reason for embarking on this project is the over-all power and efficiency of the 10 cartridge and it's potential in hunting--there's nothing else quite like it IMO. On the other hand, unless someone really wants/needs the power from the ten's top-end loads I would recommend a different caliber for a general-use semiauto; I'm guessing that's why the caliber isn't more popular than it is.
 
The OP only gains velocity compared with a factory gun on the extended ported barrel on his G20, because the barrel is longer before the porting than a factory barrel.
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If the barrel is much longer yes. But you lose velocity from ports.
Even excluding the ported portion of the length, the difference is still significant (approx. .83"), moreover, the chamber is tighter and the case support is greater, presumably providing better seal, less expansion and less gas flow back. If you fire a full-power load like the underwood (basically a 357 mag strength load coming out of that little case) you will most definitely see--and feel--the differences between the two barrels.
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Not sure that the tighter chamber is going to give you any more than one with a little more wiggle room. One will seal as good as the other for the most part. The case swells and seals (if powder load is up to snuff) before the bullet leaves the case. If it doesn't swell enough before hand (creating a seal) then the pressure was too low and the load too light causing blow bye.

As far as the chronograph it will tell you what most have found (self included). Porting cause FPS loss compared to same length barrels. Now had the barrel been closer to 1 1/2"- 2" over stock you would see an increase. What you will gain is what you have, a reduction in muzzle climb and faster target acquisition. To be honest if you were trying a ported barrel in anything like a 9mm or 40 I would say save your money. The reduction in climb doesn't really amount to much. Not near as much as in a real 10mm or magnum autos. There needs to be enough pressure to force the nose down and the smaller rounds don't have enough to really make enough downward force.

Muzzle brakes/ Compensators are really designed for heavy magnum like loads. Really became big in the 80's with the desert eagle and other magnum autos. Revived a little by the 460 Rowland.

On the other hand, unless someone really wants/needs the power from the ten's top-end loads I would recommend a different caliber for a general-use semiauto; I'm guessing that's why the caliber isn't more popular than it is.
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That's what the FBI learned from their venture that the recoil and over-penetration were not adding value to their wants/needs. It also lead to the development of the 40 as you know. They figured they would soften it up a bit to acquire a little more stable firing platform and still have good capacity and penetration through small barriers if needed. Now they realize that the lighter guns have heavy recoil and with better bullet ammo design they can fill their needs with a softer shooting 9mm so they switched back. Crazy huh?
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Wreck: "If the barrel is much longer yes. But you lose velocity from ports."

No! There is NO difference from having a plain end of the barrel and a barrel with hole in it. If you have two barrels whose uninterrupted lengths are the same, but one has an extended ported portion, their velocities will be the same.

As the OP has already pointed out, his barrel will have greater velocity than the factory barrel because he has more uninterrupted (read: unported) barrel. Let's just say that you cut off the ported portion: you'd still have a longer barrel with more velocity. Now, put the ports back on. Why on earth would you lose velocity? That makes no sense.

If you have an internally ported barrel (like a Springfield XD V-10 or a factory ported Glock), then you will lose a small amount of velocity. But with and extended ported barrel, like the OP, all you do is gain performance while dampening felt recoil.

Think of AR-15's. If you add a muzzle break to an AR-15, all you do is change the way the rifle sounds and the perceived recoil and blast for the shooter. Now, you could argue that there are negative aspects to porting, such as muzzle flash or increased noise or blast, but NOT an decrease in velocity. There are muzzle breaks on all manners of chemical/gas powered guns all the way up to artillery pieces. An extended ported barrel is no different, except the porting is an integral part of the barrel.

Porting works on all guns, including even .22 LR guns. You may not be sensitive enough to notice the difference, but it does make a difference. People port 9mm guns all the time, and speaking from personal experience: they make a huge difference when it comes to shooting rapidly. More gasses will help the porting work better, which is why .38 Super or hot 9mm are often used in competition, but you'd be very wrong to say that you need a .460 Rowland or up to gain something from porting. What's that? You don't believe me? Don't take my word for it! Take Jerry Mitculek's word then:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6dWDFcoFFs
 
No! There is NO difference from having a plain end of the barrel and a barrel with hole in it. If you have two barrels whose uninterrupted lengths are the same, but one has an extended ported portion, their velocities will be the same.
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I still beg to differ. Pressure drops at the ports. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XANl8pg3178 I have tested my self with the same results. Now as I previously mentioned the extra length may make it a wash. IE the longer ported have same velocity as stock shorter barrel.

You have to understand that a bullet gets more velocity with a longer barrel because the pressure continues to push the bullet faster for longer until the pressure suddenly drops when the bullet leaves the barrel. Any disruption in that pressure will affect the velocity. Two identical length barrels and one ported, one not. The ported will produce a lower velocity. It is physics/math, not my wild idea, claim or thought.


Porting works on all guns, including even .22 LR guns. You may not be sensitive enough to notice the difference, but it does make a difference. People port 9mm guns all the time, and speaking from personal experience: they make a huge difference when it comes to shooting rapidly.
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Huge is an overstatement. Like i said made very little for me. My shots are as quick and accurate without it. Heck a heavier gun made more difference for me than a ported barrel did. That's why I sold it. In all honesty the recoil from a 9mm, 40, or 45 in a full size pistol is not that bad to begin with. It's all in the practice.
 
Wreck, that's because, like I said before, you are comparing internally ported barrels with barrels of the same length. That is NOT the comparison that we are making with the OP's gun. We are comparing a LONGER externally ported barrel. A longer barrel (with no holes) will almost always provide more pressure. An extended ported barrel, like the OP, has yet more barrel length then porting so the pressure builds up before the ports. There are no noticeable disruptive forces that slow the bullet down from porting, only a loss of gas pressure. But in the case of screw on compensators, barrel bushing compensators, or extended ported barrels, there will be no loss of pressure when compared with a factory length barrel.

Watch Jerry Miculek's video and you can see the difference porting makes with something like a 9mm. Or watch the video you posted yourself (the example is a 9mm again). It's cool if you don't want to like porting. There are reasons not to like it, but then again, nobody is making you buy a ported gun. I have a porting/compensating sickness, I'll admit, but science is with me.

I'll admit that there is a point of diminishing returns on extending the barrel length, but the OP has not hit this point. You'd need something longer than a carbine barrel to do that with 10mm: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html

So, what you are saying is simply not true. If you have a factory length barrel and add porting out the front, you lose nothing. If you have a longer than factory length barrel, then port it out front, you only gain.

Or differently said, you are correct only when comparing factory length barrels with internal porting with regards to a loss of velocity.

Porting isn't about thinking that the recoil is "too much for me" unless you are talking magnum guns. Porting is about improving your performance and split times between shots. Once again, there is a reason people win races with porting and that limited divisions won't allow porting. Porting simply offers the shooter an advantage. You can tout your proficiency or manliness and say, "I shoot well," but you could shoot faster (not more accurately but faster) with porting than without it. Think of it like having a custom trigger on your gun. Sure, you can shoot well without it, but you could shoot even better with a better trigger.

In general, porting is kind of unpleasant. Most beginning shooters will be bothered by porting on a pistol, which is why I have different barrel sets on my guns.
 
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As I said I will try to get some real-world chrony figures--but right now we have 3 feet snow on the ground and the temp is rarely much above zero, another storm hits tonight, so it may be a while.

Overall I like the way the gun shoots--most especially the high power rounds (I don't like the "nuclear" designation). Taken as a package--the relative compactness, the massive sum of kinetic energy in a full mag, the relative ease of quick follow-up shots--it appeals to me greatly.
 
stagpather, you are cruel. You really make me want a 10mm again! I bought an EAA Match Witness with two barrels, the factory 5" barrel and an 6" extended barrel (sadly no porting) for legal hunting. However, it was at the beginning of my gun purchasing years, and I was sorely disappointed that the ammo the gun shop sold me would not run the gun, even with a trip out to EAA.

Now (and somewhat then), I know I should have tried different ammo types, but 10mm is so expensive, and I didn't know where to go to get cheap ammo (the internet was just starting to be a place to get ammo). After a trip to the factory yielded no results, I simply sold the gun.

I have a lot more faith in Glock to make a 10mm that will run with more ammunition types. Glock seems to make the highest value 10mm for the $$$.
 
I'm no expert and I don't know what the new glock long slide is like--but I noticed in the specs that it will be a conventional rifled barrel and they specifically say it's a medium game hunter--so I have to assume it has the extra case support which is necessary for the high power stuff (plus you do get the longer sight radius). The para ordinance elite LS hunter also appears to be made with a nod towards the high power loads--so it seems the manufacturers are catching on that the ten has real potential besides being a 40 S&W in drag. : )

As ugly as a glock is with that box-like slide--I can't help asking myself over and over why the heck they don't take advantage of that top flat deck and build in an option for mounting an optic--I've never had much success with consistency with dovetail mount arrangements.

Also, I would think the appeal of the ten is going to be limited to mostly people who reload to reduce ammo costs--though a 50 round box of underwoods high power loads are still reasonable if you're not using them for routine range practice.

I'm not a glock fanboy and this is my first one--but I have to admit the huge availability of after market parts and the amazing ease and quickness of disassemble and parts access gets addictive very quickly. : )
 
You'd be happy to know that the only way the new long slide 10mm comes is optics ready (for Trijicon RMR and the like--3 different kinds I believe): http://us.glock.com/mos

I'm no Glock fanboy either, but I like stuff that works and Glocks tend to be a fairly known quantity, and though I don't own one, I've shot everybody else's Glock and like their boring but predictable triggers.

I've eyed Underwood before, and it does look like they are one of the only ammunition companies that have reasonable 10mm prices (right now...). I would imagine that as the ammunition market slowly returns to normal that more manufacturers' ammunition will become avaliable. But, all bets are off as soon as the new election cycle comes around.
 
Imagine that 6" factory Glock beast with an extended ported barrel in it! The only thing I don't like is that the slide is not an open top, like Lone Wolf 10mm long slides can be. I'd really dig a Glock 10mm long slide with internal porting... Glock probably did that because it's optics ready and some of the blast from internal porting could muck up the the optic.

Yes, Wreck, I know an internally ported Glock long slide would have slightly lower velocity than a non-ported long slide or even possibly a non-ported G20.
 
From the original context:
The OP only gains velocity compared with a factory gun on the extended ported barrel on his G20, because the barrel is longer before the porting than a factory barrel.
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My response:
If the barrel is much longer yes. But you lose velocity from ports.
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My first sentence is saying if the barrel length is significant then yes. Second statement was only reminding that the porting loses over the remainder. IOW cant be counted. Any barrel length that produces no gain in velocity is counted as a loss to the overall length, as a whole. I can see where context could be misconstrued. Little more details next time I think.


Wreck, that's because, like I said before, you are comparing internally ported barrels with barrels of the same length.
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The video was an example of same barrel lengths and was a response to this :
No! There is NO difference from having a plain end of the barrel and a barrel with hole in it.
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This statement was kind of conflicting in context. Couldn't tell what you meant until now. Even though you went on to say they were different. It was hard to tell what you meant.

It's cool if you don't want to like porting.
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Whats not to like they just have limits.I said in a prior statement that they really make a difference in heavy magnum semi-autos. They were originally made to help manage heavy muzzle rise in those guns if my recollection is on par. But they don't in standard caliber full size for the average shooter. Competition use is different and limited to a group of competitors. I was speaking the average Joe up to a little more serious but not in competition type use. So many new people and people with little experience get big ideas when they see the cool barrel. What I originally was trying to prevent an average person (who isn't thinking competition) from thinking that a 6" ported barrel would produce much higher velocities than a stock 4" as well as give them a great reduction in muzzle climb in standard carry calibers.
 
I'm not sure what you're driving at here--maybe I shouldn't be using the barrel or the benefits are imaginary and in my head only? Could be, but even if that's true I still shoot the high power loads better and with more confidence with the extended EFK barrel than with the stock barrel.
 
Wreck, I am only picking a bone with you because of the particular barrels we are talking about.

The O.P. has already presented his barrels and his comparison is what we were talking about originally. In his particular case, the barrels he is presenting will by the laws of science reflect an increase of velocity of a ported barrel vs. a non-ported barrel. The ported barrel is longer in every aspect, and most importantly is longer for an unported portion of its barrel. If you have a 16" barrel that is ported at the end, it will have higher velocity than a 2" unported barrel, period. There is no debate.

However, you posted a counter video demonstrating loss in velocity of a ported 9mm barrel vs. a barrel of the same length unported. This video demonstrates what I am talking about quite clearly. The ported barrel is akin to a 1.5" barrel, with a comp at the end of it. The unported barrel is a 3" continuous barrel. The unported barrel has more recoil, according to the author of the video. The O.P.'s Glock 20 has a factory barrel of 4.6" unported. The ported barrel is a 6" barrel, ported, so it has roughly 5" of barrel that is continuous. That means that the ported barrel is actually like a 5" barrel, if you cut it flat, in terms of pressure. Period. It will have a higher velocity. There is no debating this rationally.

Further, the video demonstrates, according to the author whom you cite to back up your claims, that the internally ported 3" 9mm barrel makes a difference. This makes your claims that only a super expert competition shooter will benefit from porting weak at best.

However, I will concede you this, Wreck: I agree with you in saying that a beginning shooter should not gravitate towards porting to begin with inherently. It's just not a claim that you started out saying from the get go. You mentioned a whole of other arguments about porting that had nothing to do with actual negative factors of porting that were ever under discussion. In the case of a beginner shooter, I would actually say that porting can hamper skill building. Porting makes a gun very loud and very blasty. For the first 2,000 to maybe 6,000 rounds, my XD caused me to flinch from the blast of the pressure wave. I could actually feel the air pressure on my eyes like a glaucoma test. This was because I was using an internally ported barrel that let out far more gasses and was far closer to the chamber. When I switched to an externally ported extended barrel, I noticed less of this effect, but there was more recoil. Go figure, right? Less gasses are escaping later in the process of firing. This means less recoil reduction but a gain in velocity. However, an extended ported barrel will still significantly reduce recoil in comparison. An added benefit of this is that your front sight won't get blackened like internal porting will (also this can damage night sight lamps as they hold radioactive gas).

You can also have a "porting strike." I making this term up, as I have only read about baffle strikes on silencers. But I had either a porting strike or a weak piece of metal on my externally ported barrel or a squib that got stuck in the barrel. I don't know, but I would imagine that a "porting strike" is less likely with Magnaporting or V-10 porting or internal porting in general.

And in addition to this, you have hot gasses, unburnt powder, and possibly metal fragments flying out of your ports, so you have to be aware of this or you could damage your eyes or get injured. However, if you are shooting like you are taught, with the gun forward of your face, you will have no problem with this.

Those are real considerations when it comes to porting or compensation. Noise. Fragments. Strikes. Pressure.

As far as people talk about night shooting and losing vision: That's mostly bs. Revolvers have plenty of gasses escaping from the cylinder, which is similar to escaping gases and unburned powder flying out of a ported barrel. I've fired revolvers, AR-15's with muzzle breaks, AK-47 variants, and internally ported 9mm pistols all at night. None of it will really kill your night vision in any reasonable concerning way. If you have any lights going or even star or moonlight, you will be seeing pretty much the way you are already seeing. Will you be giving away your position? Hell, yes you will. Do you care? Maybe, maybe not. That is up to the shooter and individual preferences.
 
stagpather, you are cruel. You really make me want a 10mm again! I bought an EAA Match Witness with two barrels, the factory 5" barrel and an 6" extended barrel (sadly no porting) for legal hunting. However, it was at the beginning of my gun purchasing years, and I was sorely disappointed that the ammo the gun shop sold me would not run the gun, even with a trip out to EAA.

Now (and somewhat then), I know I should have tried different ammo types, but 10mm is so expensive, and I didn't know where to go to get cheap ammo (the internet was just starting to be a place to get ammo). After a trip to the factory yielded no results, I simply sold the gun.

I have a lot more faith in Glock to make a 10mm that will run with more ammunition types. Glock seems to make the highest value 10mm for the $$$.
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The older 20 and maybe the 29 as well I think have conventional polygonal rifled barrels and don't have quite as much case support as an after-market barrel like a LW, storm, efk etc. The new 40 I'm sure has full case support and better feed ramp thus allowing the use of full-power loads. Underwood's full-power ammo is quite reasonable--I've paid a lot more for run-of-the-mill federal and pmc stuff from gun stores. Obviously if you reload you can save a lot--but it's a tricky round to reload full-power loads for. 1911's can also be problematic with full-power loads unless they specifically make their barrels to support them.

Does anyone know what the msrp is for the new 40??

I haven't seen an MSRP
 
Heh, my XD V-10 creates a shower of burning powder about 10-15 feet out in a V-pattern. It is just mostly a dull red/orange with normal powder plinking ammo (CCI Blazer Brass). I bet that would look really cool with "enhanced" flash powder.
 
Lil'gun is great in magnum loads for making your gun into a flame-thrower. lol It also has a bit of a notorious reputation for cutting forcing cones and frame straps--but I suspect that might have something to do with the residue especially if it's not cleaned immediately after use--I've never seen any damage in my revolvers or lever guns with lil'gun loads but then again I don't use it all the time.
 
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