Glock 19 accuracy vs Sigs, Walthers, Hks

H

HKUSP45C

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Hows the accuracy on the Glocks compared to the other leading brands? I hear talks about it not as accurate but just exactly how much not accurate? Lets say they were all put on the bench @ 25yds by a skilled shooter, how would the results compare?
Also, for those Glock fans, is it true that putting a G17 trigger on the G19 is better? I heard some people post something about that before. Aren't the triggers the same and if not, where can you can a G17 trigger (whole assmebly or what?) What are some Glock tips to make it better?
ST
 
It's not the gun. It's the shooter.

I've seen great shooters nail a quarter at 25 yards with a Hi Point Compact 9mm pistol and the like. Yup!

All of those guns are all quite accurate combat guns.

Glock's accuracy standard is 2" groups at 25 yards if you're a good shooter.

With the excpetion of my HK P7 which nails 0.5" groups at 25 yards, the Glocks, USPs, Sigs, CZs, Kahrs, and the like can all perform to combat accuracy standards of 4" groups at 25 yards.

For more Glock information, go to Glocktalk. But the 3.5 trigger connector is what you need for a smooth trigger pull.
 
I can consistently hit paper plates (about 7" diameter) at 50 yards with my Glock 19. In other words, they are PLENTY accurate for anything you would ever want to reasonably do with them.

I would say that the difference in accuracy is very slight amongst the top manufacturers.

The G17 and the G19 are shipped with the exact same triggers installed. If you want to improve on it, have the 3.5# trigger disconnect installed. I did, and I am of the opinion that it helped me with faster followup shots, but not on accuracy.
 
IMO........

The Sig and HK are in another level of accuracy than the Glock. I have yet to see or shoot a Glock (other than the tackdriving 21, 30, or 35) that can hit under 2" from a benchrest CONSISTENTLY. Yes, I have gotten sub 2" groups on occasion while benchresting the G17s, 19s, 22s, 23s etc; however, the AVERAGE groups are much higher than sub 2". I also do not agree with the premise that all Glocks having a standard of 2" groupings. I have never seen/read/heard Glock Inc make this claim. BTW, Sigs and HKs I have shot can routinely group under 2" @ 25 yards.
 
Dont do what I did, bought a sig and was sick after I got back from the range,my g19 will consistantly out shoot the sigs with most shooters. I think this is because of the grip angle but to me the g19 is much easier to hit with. It is true that all three are more accurate than most shooters, but just look at the gun shows at all the used sigs for sale that will tell you something
 
I think the Glock trigger is different enough that many people have a hard time learning it. The "low and left" syndrome is much more common among new Glock shooters than other brands. So for this reason, I would say that Glock pistols are "less accurate" than the other pistols mentioned.

Actual accuracy from a gun vice? They're all more accurate than me, that's for sure!

About the difference in triggers: The G17 comes with a smooth-faced trigger and a G19 comes with a grooved "target" trigger. Many people replace the grooved trigger with the smooth trigger. It's purely personal choice. The actual trigger pull is the same. It is pretty simple to switch these parts out.
 
Yeah, most of those used SIG Sauers are police trade in guns.
That tells me that Glocks are cheaper than SIGs, and that PD's don't want to dedicate more time than necessary to train their officers. It does not tell me that Glock is superior to SIG or vice versa.

Ron 1, practice practice practice.
 
I try not to...

...confuse my compact carry autos with my target pistols.

Will a (Glock, SIG, Walther, HK, Colt, *&*, CZ, etc.) put them in the 10-ring out to any reasonable distance? Good enough for me. I'm not going to get ulcers that my P7 isn't shooting .355" groups... ;)

I shot indoor smallbore rifle competition in college, so maybe I'm just judging by Anschutz standards, but I just don't expect that from military/police-style combat autos.
 
Gino,
I hear about that G19 to G17 trigger from other posts as well too. Where can you get the it though. Should I get a Glock, is that part hard to find and how much do they go for?
ST
 
There's nothing wrong with wanting accuracy in fighting handgun (though I rank reliability higher).

Yes, in terms of accuracy, most shooters are not worthy of their guns. At the same time, why should they tolerate a gun that compounds their errors?

I'm not a great or even a very good shot, but I do notice a difference in my group sizes with "accurate" versus "inaccurate" guns. When a range rental SIG P220 gives me a single ragged 10-shot hole at 10 yards, I know that any bad hits are most certainly my fault. With a less accurate gun, maybe that's not so.

The phrase "combat accurate" is, IMHO, becoming over- and mis-used. "Combat accurate" is slowly becoming a synonym for "keeps it on the silhouette at 25 yards." That's not good enough. How can we preach the importance of shot placement to stop an aggressor, then tell people that any torso hit at close range is good enough?
 
Elmo,

I'm alluding more to the use of a superiority of .75" to 1" in group size (with its preferred ammo) to trumpet the total superiority of [insert favorite handgun] over the [hangun being slammed].

My P7 groups better than my Glock 29. I usually carry the Glock 29, despite this, for it has other advantages from rust-resistance to two more rounds of a larger and more potent caliber to the fact that it'd be easier to replace if seized after a shooting. All factors that mean more to me in a defense pistol than the size of the ragged hole in the 10-ring.
 
We're not arguing, Tamara. If I had the luxury of choosing between a Glock 29 and a P7 for daily carry, I'd do exactly what you do. I'm sure your .75" vs. 1" comparison was facetious. :)

The original question was a comparison of competing models of compact 9mm. If the difference between the Glock 19 and the others was a mere fraction of an inch, other factors would probably make the decision. This is true of many gun "qualities". Suppose two guns were subjected to reliablity testing -- gun A has 1 misfeed in 20,000 rounds, gun B has 2 misfeeds in 20,000 rounds. Now suppose gun B shoots to point of aim and consistently groups within 2" at 25 yards. Gun A, however, usually averages 4" groups at the same distance. Perhaps we'll also say that gun A tends to break a little more often. Things get kind of complicated.

Accuracy is a big part of the picture but not necessarily the whole picture. I'm leery of guns often described as "combat accurate" because it seems to be a synonym for "not real impressive." Perhaps the same gun has other qualities that outweigh mediocre accuracy.

And I know you're not suggesting your 29 is inaccurate, are you? :)


[Edited by Elmo on 02-09-2001 at 10:44 PM]
 
Does anyone know where I can get the G17 smooth face trigger? Also, how much does it cost to have it installed by a gunsmith?
 
Accuracy is a big part of the picture but not necessarily the whole picture. I'm leery of guns often described as "combat accurate" because it seems to be a synonym for "not real impressive." Perhaps the same gun has other qualities that outweigh mediocre accuracy.
Click to expand...

Agreed. As a whole, "combat accurate" seems to be a synonym for "barely passing accuracy". Since I do a lot of 25 yard target shooting/plinking, I am not happy with mediocre accuracy even if it does pass as "combat accurate".
 
I can only compare the G19 to the Walthers, specifically the P99, and the P5. I think that the Walthers are better shooting. The issue for me was one of ergonomics, and price. The P99 did not feel right, even with the smallest grip insert, and the P5 was way to expensive (my friend has one). Hence, I traded the P99 for a G19, which fits much beter, but is not as accurate. The ammo sensitivity of the Walthers was an issue with me also as I shoot Gold Dots a lot. Walthers just do not like G.D. ;)
 
None of my many HK P7's ever gave truly impressive groups. I was disappointed at the "legendary" accuracy they were supposed to have. They are a great gun though!

The Glock is not a target gun, but no one says it is not accurate either. The beauty of the Glock shows when you pull it from leather and make fast defensive hits with it. The trigger is GREAT for that purpose. Other guns that excel at target shooting really fall behind against the timer from a holster. That is why I see so many Glocks in my IPSC competitions these days. They are great from the holster, and that can be a great thing. If you want a target gun, then don't get a combat gun. Figure out what your priorities are.

That said, I am a pretty good shot, and having owned all of the above said guns, I never found one that showed any more accuracy than another across the board. I would honestly say that HK's, Sigs, and Glocks and everything else I have tried print exactly the same groups. It just depends more on what you shoot better. I have never been able to determine that one brand is totally more accurate than another. I plan to try a real custom 1911 soon though, one that probably can do 1" at 25 yards. Maybe THEN I will finally see a real accuracy difference, but between all the combat gun brands mentioned I have had some guns that were more accurate than others but I honestly don't think that any one of the brands is more accurate across the board.

For instance, my Glock 30 and my Glock 32 print groups that my Sigs and HKs could only DREAM about. I shoot my Glock 31 out to over 200 yards offhand and hit a torso easily. I am not going to name numbers here (like X inches at 25 yards) but let me just say that none of my other brand guns are any more accurate than that.
The Glock is just as accurate as you are with it. Some people never get the hang of the trigger, or never get proper training to learn how. If you really want to make your Glock accurate, get some good training and practice dry firing a lot.
 
Where in Glockmeister is it? I see the competition trigger set but thats at 3.5# I want a stock G17 smooth face trigger.(I am to buy the Glock19) I go to the stock parts list and the one listed for the 17 is the same part # as the 19. Can someone point me to the right way. I am kinda new at this. (with Glocks)
Thanks
ST
 
I believe you want the part # 357 at the bottom of http://glockmeister.com/partref1.html


It's the trigger and trigger bar for the G17/22/24.

NOW... can someone please explain to me what part of the trigger is "serrated" and why it is considered a "target" trigger? Where does this smoother pull take place in the action of the trigger pull? The full size Glocks have this smooth trigger, right? Can someone give more info?
 
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