Glass Bedding Question

So you say you know guys who shoot with fully bedded barrels...

"There are still folks who believe otherwise and partially or full contact bed their barrels, but I don't know of any whose rifles shoot no worse than 1/4 MOA through 200 yards like totally free floating barrels can produce"

(wouldn't 1/4 moa at 200 yards prove it worked?)

Yet:

"A lot of 'smiths think it's needed to support the barrel relieving the barrel's hard pressure against the receiver at the bottom. Folks in the above paragraph don't think that's an issue; their results prove them right."

(again, 1/4 MOA at 200 yards isn't result enough to prove right?)

And:

"Well, it proves what does and does not work in making rifles shoot repeatably to the same point on target."

Which makes this:

"Grind it out is my suggestion."

A very interesting suggestion on a rifle you've never seen, shot, or even know how it groups or know why it was bedded that way...Even though you say you've seen rifles with bedded barrels shoot no worse than 1/4 MOA...

Some rifles come with pressure point(s) along the forearm to improve accuracy of a given barrel. Some stocks can't support the weight of the barrel and flex so the stocks are bedded to help support the weight.
 
You, semi-, have missed my point.

I'll comment after I see you've correctly interpreted what I put in print.
 
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semi problomatic, I don't consider waiting 2 minutes or long between shots cold bore testing.

In the real world of hunting you don't get that chance you get that first shot from a cold bore and you may go entire season and get that shot on the last day.

I do work up my loads and I'll wait between shots and after 3rd shot if things don't look good I'll move on to the next load. Once I get a load and groups good then I shoot it out to 600yds again groups are good then that's a load I'll hunt with.

We've had few days this week temp be in the 20's and normally I'll set target @ 300yd and take a shot from barrel that hasn't been shot few days maybe longer see were it hits and that's only shot taken. I may have to wait few days or longer go back out same target I'll set back up 300yd take another shot see were it's at compare to that first shot and I may make few more range trips till I get a five shot group.

I'm not going to base my accuracy on type of rifle that Bart shoots if you look at the score shot at a match which groups can run over 20" @ 800/900 and 1000yds. Where does that first shot hit compare to last shot? What missing is getting to look at the score card they use.

If you take that F-Class target and the score they shoot hold that up to full size deer/elk would that first shot be in the heart or a miss maybe gut shot it's the unknown.

your just not comparing apples to apples.
 
I wasn't really trying to compare benchrest rifles to hunting rifles, I'm not the one who said "Well, it proves what does and does not work in making rifles shoot repeatably to the same point on target."

All I said was, "One school of thought is to bed the barrel so you have constant pressure on a cold bore shot (ie, no "first round flyers) but you'll have a wandering zero as the barrel heats up. Bench rest shooters can warm their barrels with sighting shots, but you really can't do that with a hunting rifle. "

The rest was just discussion of competitions and such.

I don't understand what you mean by this: "In the real world of hunting you don't get that chance you get that first shot from a cold bore and you may go entire season and get that shot on the last day."

I do agree you never know when you will get a chance for that one shot.

Thats the reason I run a barrel snake through my rifle after every shot. The way I see it, I could slip in a creek or sit out in pouring rain on a hunt and need to wipe the rifle and barrel down after. If I cleaned the barrel and didn't know what the rifle would do without fouling shots I could make an unclean shot.

I don't think it takes days for a barrel to cool off from one shot, but I could be wrong. Maybe I could get my digital meat themometer and put it down my chamber before and after and see how long it takes to return to the origional temperature...
 
semi problomatic, When you go to the range you pick the time and place and what temp it may be. Real world were I hunt coldest I've take a bull was 27 below and I home this coming week it gets below zero.

You gone from shooters more concern about groups and not enough about first shot and I agreed with you now you don't understand what real world hunting is.

No use getting into a contest and good luck in your hunting.
 
Oh no, I totally agree old roper. I see what you mean now. I just didn't understand the first day/last day part. Fortunately down here we don't hit -20! But it can be in the teens one week and 70's the next. You have the same problem with reloads. I had a recipe that worked great during the summer when I developed it, but shifted and opened up when it got cold.

And I wasn't trying to get into a contest. I really don't whether it takes days for a cold bore or a few minutes. I figured a cold bore was a clean bore at ambient temp and that it wouldn't take that long for a barrel to cool down. My digital meat themometer would fit in my chamber and reads from at least 70-190 degrees...

I don't take any shots at critters at 300 or 600 yards, down here the furthest shot I've ever taken at an animal was at 180 yards. We just don't have a lot of wide open spaces here.
 
semi-problomatic, decent match rifles, either benchrest, F-class or hand-held shoulder fired ones, do not walk shot impact as their barrels heat up. They'll all put 10, 20, 30 or even 40 shots fired a few to several seconds apart and neither does zero change nor group center. All with totally, not partial, free floating barrels in standard, medium and heavy weights for a given length.

There's two exceptions.

One is some will shoot bullets our a few fps faster after starting with a clean barrel and the added fouling increases both pressure and muzzle velocity. Those shots will go 1/8 MOA higher at the longer ranges. Little or not change at 600 yards and shorter ranges.

The other is accuracy tests with barreled actions ringed and laid in Mann rests such as arsenals used testing 30 caliber match ammo. But these are 100% repeatable from shot to shot for 200+ shots fired in 1/2 to 1/3 as many minutes.

Barrels that walk shot impact as they warm up are typically fit poorly to the receiver.
 
I understand that Mr. Bart, I just failed to realise the OP's rifle was a decent match rifle. What I read looked like a remington 700 in a cheap aftermarket stock that had a bedding job done to it. If I'd of known this was a match rifle I'd commented differently.
 
I'm not going to base my accuracy on type of rifle that Bart shoots if you look at the score shot at a match which groups can run over 20" @ 800/900 and 1000yds. Where does that first shot hit compare to last shot? What missing is getting to look at the score card they use.
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What Old Roper didn't mention in this comment is why their groups run over 20 inches at those range. There's little difference in accuracy between the 3 types of rifles used in competition; benchrest, F-Class and high power. The best of them shoot under 3/4 MOA at 800 through 1000 yards tested the same way.

When aimed at the targets by the best marksmen aiming them, one has a holding area the sights move around in of less than 1/100th MOA and are the most repeatably aimed for each shot. Another moves around under 1/10th MOA and is very repeatable for each shot. And the last has a holding area of 1 MOA and is the least repeatable from shot to shot.

One's rested and virtually untouched by the shooter except for a fingertip on its sub 2-ounce trigger. Another is lightly held against ones shoulder with its weight supported at both ends as it's few-ounce trigger's pulled. The last is hand held against ones shoulder supported only by human bones wiggled by muscles that's not all that repeatable from shot to shot which adds another 1/2 MOA to groups shot as well as having a 3.5-pound trigger to manage repeatably, plus its bullets often don't buck the wind as good as the others often use.

With this information, it should be easy for reasonable folks to figure out which one shoots 2 MOA or larger groups at those ranges virtually all the time while the other two shoot much smaller groups on paper. And it's just as important to those competitors to have their first shot strike point of aim; that makes correcting for minute errors much easier. Making a 1/4 MOA correction for that first shot's a whole lot easier than estimating the correction for one that's several MOA away from call.
 
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Well...
If it were my rifle, I'd just start at square "1".

Shoot it.

Why mess with it, before you shoot it?

IMO, bedding part of the barrel (ahead of the lug) isn't "SOP", and he should have consulted you first if that was his plan.
 
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