Gimme on Break on JFK Jr.!
- Thread starter Cheapo
- Start date
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Mr. Foote-
Apologies where necessary. It wasn't a "crack" about local CFI's; it was an observation. While I'm quite proud of the training I received under a "local" CFI (Private Pilot, Instrument and MultiEngine ratings), the resousrces available from Flight Safety are second to none...unless your son has found a way to purchase airframe and cockpit specific simulators.
I'll stand by my statement that training by Flight Safety is more uniformly excellent than that by a randomly picked group of hangar CFI's...despite my experience and your son's dedication. FS's price demands excellence
.
Can an independant CFI provide excellent training? Yup. Are there more washout independants than at a school like Flight Safety? Yup. No different than comparing training at Orange Gunsite to training from the local guru. The local may be great or lousy...the Gunsite trainer is certainly competent.
I remember hiring a CFI to fly me and my Dad from Macon to Gainseville, FL (my Cessna 210) in low IFR just after I'd received my IFR ticket. He flew the ILS so badly that, after the miss, I took it in myself. When I checked, I learned that he had just over 200 hours total time. Caveat Emptor.
Rich
[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited July 19, 1999).]
Apologies where necessary. It wasn't a "crack" about local CFI's; it was an observation. While I'm quite proud of the training I received under a "local" CFI (Private Pilot, Instrument and MultiEngine ratings), the resousrces available from Flight Safety are second to none...unless your son has found a way to purchase airframe and cockpit specific simulators.
I'll stand by my statement that training by Flight Safety is more uniformly excellent than that by a randomly picked group of hangar CFI's...despite my experience and your son's dedication. FS's price demands excellence
.Can an independant CFI provide excellent training? Yup. Are there more washout independants than at a school like Flight Safety? Yup. No different than comparing training at Orange Gunsite to training from the local guru. The local may be great or lousy...the Gunsite trainer is certainly competent.
I remember hiring a CFI to fly me and my Dad from Macon to Gainseville, FL (my Cessna 210) in low IFR just after I'd received my IFR ticket. He flew the ILS so badly that, after the miss, I took it in myself. When I checked, I learned that he had just over 200 hours total time. Caveat Emptor.
Rich
[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited July 19, 1999).]
ENOUGH AWREADY!
Ok, it's a shame these people died. I really do have sympathy for the families. But DAMN, I'm tired of hearing about it. This is all that's on the news, the papers are full of it and Entertainment Tonight did their whole show about it.
And even here at TFL there are, what? Three, maybe four threads about John-John?
If Jesus was to come back tommorow, he'd be reduced to a ten second sound bite at the end of the news because everybody is covering Kennedy!
Let it go! Let these folks rest in peace.
Ok, it's a shame these people died. I really do have sympathy for the families. But DAMN, I'm tired of hearing about it. This is all that's on the news, the papers are full of it and Entertainment Tonight did their whole show about it.
And even here at TFL there are, what? Three, maybe four threads about John-John?
If Jesus was to come back tommorow, he'd be reduced to a ten second sound bite at the end of the news because everybody is covering Kennedy!
Let it go! Let these folks rest in peace.
spark@onestopknifeshop.com
Wise Guy
No doubt. It's bad enough that John Jr. is most likely going to show up in someone's crab pot, but geez, it's not like he's a current official of anything.
Joe Snuffy in a Rowboat would have been written off in 24 hours, yadda yadda yadda.
It's too bad that it wound up being John because he was the only Kennedy that I really respected these days, but he showed that he could be just as stupid as the rest of us with this stunt. Enough is enough.
Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com
Joe Snuffy in a Rowboat would have been written off in 24 hours, yadda yadda yadda.
It's too bad that it wound up being John because he was the only Kennedy that I really respected these days, but he showed that he could be just as stupid as the rest of us with this stunt. Enough is enough.
Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com
It's been rather sobering for me to listen to all you flyboys talk about how dumb Jr. was. I understand (superficially) what you're explaining, but what I'm thinking about is all the really DUMB things I've done and somehow survived.
It would be hypocritical of me to bad-mouth the boy. I'm not only UNqualified as a pilot, I have been "awarded" too many Darwin Awards from other endeavors! (Ribbons, oak leaf clusters, etc.)
Also, it bothers me some that I would have no way of knowing whether the pilot I'm trusting with my life knows his aileron from his empennage! Every pilot talks the "been there, done that" but I watched a commercial pilot drive a Cessna into a hangar wall one day - been a little nervous since then...
Recently we even had a big train wreck in Texas. Cars are more dangerous than planes or trains but at least I can go down fighting. And if the damned thing quits running I can coast to a curb.
Like y'all, I'm sorry 'bout it. Glad it wasn't another TWA flight 800 (?). Sick of the reporting - but at least it isn't a school shooting.
It would be hypocritical of me to bad-mouth the boy. I'm not only UNqualified as a pilot, I have been "awarded" too many Darwin Awards from other endeavors! (Ribbons, oak leaf clusters, etc.)
Also, it bothers me some that I would have no way of knowing whether the pilot I'm trusting with my life knows his aileron from his empennage! Every pilot talks the "been there, done that" but I watched a commercial pilot drive a Cessna into a hangar wall one day - been a little nervous since then...
Recently we even had a big train wreck in Texas. Cars are more dangerous than planes or trains but at least I can go down fighting. And if the damned thing quits running I can coast to a curb.
Like y'all, I'm sorry 'bout it. Glad it wasn't another TWA flight 800 (?). Sick of the reporting - but at least it isn't a school shooting.
Ed Brunner
New member
Dennis; I deliberately refrained from referring to my list of boo-boos and it is only through the grace of God that I survive.
It bugs me that most commentators are really quick to jump in and point out how foolhardy and really stupid he was to attempt the flight.
It has to do with hindsight.And it has to do with their attachment to the perceived Kennedy mystique.
People are really hypocrites.On the one hand they admire risk takers and on the other they are ultra-quick to condemn failure.
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Better days to be,
Ed
It bugs me that most commentators are really quick to jump in and point out how foolhardy and really stupid he was to attempt the flight.
It has to do with hindsight.And it has to do with their attachment to the perceived Kennedy mystique.
People are really hypocrites.On the one hand they admire risk takers and on the other they are ultra-quick to condemn failure.
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Better days to be,
Ed
Ed,
This plane crash was not an accident. It was like playing Russian roulette. If we took a revolver and put a bullet in a chamber spun the cylinder pulled the trigger and the gun went of, would that be an accident, no.
The worst thing is he killed two other people that probably thought he knew what he was doing.
This plane crash was not an accident. It was like playing Russian roulette. If we took a revolver and put a bullet in a chamber spun the cylinder pulled the trigger and the gun went of, would that be an accident, no.
The worst thing is he killed two other people that probably thought he knew what he was doing.
Fortunately, I haven't turned on the TV for several weeks.
But I have to say that JFK Jr. is/was of 100 times more interest to me that Princess Diana (still not much), which was a three-week non-stop media circus if you'll recall. Jeez, at least this guy did something on his own, unlike Diana who simply used her notoriety and the crown's money to champion her causes. She wasn't even the stinkin queen when she died, for God's sakes, due to the divorce. And even if she was, who gives a god dang crap about british freakin royalty?! Yeah, JFK Jr stuff sounds like it was overboard, but surely it can't compare to the overblown incident of all time?
The sad part is that is was Jr. not Uncle Ted crashing into the ocean. He is the one doing so much damage to our rights in the Senate. At least Jr. was contributing to society by helping the economy as an employer. Ted is bringing down our society with liberal lunacy.
As an aside, I have long thought that small planes are extremely dangerous. My dad crashed a small plane and nearly died. Look at all the many celebs who have died in plane crashes. Seems like an unnecessary risk when you can get on a jetliner.
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 22, 1999).]
But I have to say that JFK Jr. is/was of 100 times more interest to me that Princess Diana (still not much), which was a three-week non-stop media circus if you'll recall. Jeez, at least this guy did something on his own, unlike Diana who simply used her notoriety and the crown's money to champion her causes. She wasn't even the stinkin queen when she died, for God's sakes, due to the divorce. And even if she was, who gives a god dang crap about british freakin royalty?! Yeah, JFK Jr stuff sounds like it was overboard, but surely it can't compare to the overblown incident of all time?
The sad part is that is was Jr. not Uncle Ted crashing into the ocean. He is the one doing so much damage to our rights in the Senate. At least Jr. was contributing to society by helping the economy as an employer. Ted is bringing down our society with liberal lunacy.
As an aside, I have long thought that small planes are extremely dangerous. My dad crashed a small plane and nearly died. Look at all the many celebs who have died in plane crashes. Seems like an unnecessary risk when you can get on a jetliner.
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 22, 1999).]
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Futo-
By your same argument we could argue that many activities are unnecessarily dangerous. Sand lot football, martial arts training, horseback riding, automobile ownership...to name a few.
That's why the "pursuit of happiness" was never couched in "collective" terms. People live; People die. They have a right to choose the risks in both.
That was JR's choice. Unfortunately, his passengers were probably less aware of the risks he chose *for* them.
Rich
By your same argument we could argue that many activities are unnecessarily dangerous. Sand lot football, martial arts training, horseback riding, automobile ownership...to name a few.
That's why the "pursuit of happiness" was never couched in "collective" terms. People live; People die. They have a right to choose the risks in both.
That was JR's choice. Unfortunately, his passengers were probably less aware of the risks he chose *for* them.
Rich
Rich, you are right of course. What I mean is that when weighing this complex calculus, FOR ME, it's not worth it, even considering the intangible thrill/enjoyment factor. To me, a more-dangerous ultralite, hang-glider, parasail etc. WOULD be worth it, because the additional marginal danger over a small aircraft (which I view as not much) would be greatly outweighed by the thrill/enjoyment factor. This would be akin to sky-diving, mountain climbing, motorcycle racing, alpine skiing, or what have you, all of which I love or know I would if I did it. But so many COMPETENT pilots have bit it that I cannot even begin to think they all were screwups. So, what do you get from it? Point A to Point B will a little enjoyment and a lot of monetary expense and more than a little risk. For you and others, it's obviously worth it. For me, between cars, jetliners, trains, etc. and the high-risk but very-high thrill activities to placate that side of me, I see boarding a small plane as an imprudent gamble with my life and health. I fear disability/maiming far more than I fear death. As someone pointed out, there's no way to coast to the curb. To each his own.
Incidentally, I view horseback riding (certainly rodeo participation) and playing football as unreasonably dangerous, too. For me, it's not worth risking serious injury to my knees, wrists, ankles, or spinal column, primarily because the intrumentality causing the injury is out of my control (a high-speed football opponent hiting my knee, or an unexpectedly-gone-berserk horse throwing me). But with skiing, motorcycle riding, etc., my element of personal control of the risk of harm is much greater. Now, arguably, one has as much control over the small plane if you're the pilot as the motorcycle (investigate the mechanics' competence, inspect the machine yourself, rely on your own training and judgment, etc.), but a motorcycle I can always plan on how I'm going to lay it over if something goes SNAFU. With a plane, it's pretty much put you head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye.
Also, the reason I play hockey now instead of football, soccer, etc. is because in hockey, the injuries are usually to the face or ribs which are usually easily repairable with a little money and time (plus I'm ugly as sin already), but an injury to a joint can give you lifelong problems. I've gone astray here...
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 23, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 23, 1999).]
Incidentally, I view horseback riding (certainly rodeo participation) and playing football as unreasonably dangerous, too. For me, it's not worth risking serious injury to my knees, wrists, ankles, or spinal column, primarily because the intrumentality causing the injury is out of my control (a high-speed football opponent hiting my knee, or an unexpectedly-gone-berserk horse throwing me). But with skiing, motorcycle riding, etc., my element of personal control of the risk of harm is much greater. Now, arguably, one has as much control over the small plane if you're the pilot as the motorcycle (investigate the mechanics' competence, inspect the machine yourself, rely on your own training and judgment, etc.), but a motorcycle I can always plan on how I'm going to lay it over if something goes SNAFU. With a plane, it's pretty much put you head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye.
Also, the reason I play hockey now instead of football, soccer, etc. is because in hockey, the injuries are usually to the face or ribs which are usually easily repairable with a little money and time (plus I'm ugly as sin already), but an injury to a joint can give you lifelong problems. I've gone astray here...
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 23, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 23, 1999).]