Gibbs .303 Jungle Carbine

J

JetTroop

Inactive
Greetings! This is my first post here, and, hopefully not my last.

I purchased a Gibbs Jungle Carbine:
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/historical_remakes_.html
and, since I'm former Military as well as a "history buff", this rifle was a great find. The only difference between the rifle in that link and what I have is the fact that the exposed metal surfaces appear to be coated in a nickel-type coating; otherwise, it is pretty obvious that this rifle was pretty much a "refurbed" WWII relic. It has all the original stampings and markings, and has the flip up ghost ring sight on it. It also has the original flashhider along with what looks like a compensator cut into the rear of the flashhider , obstensively to reduce recoil.

I have an opportunity to fire about 100 rounds through it, with a mix of commercial and military surplus ammo, and, even with the built-in compensator, recoil is a bit on the unpleasant side. I would liken it to firing a 30-06 in a small carbine. My question(s) involve ammo and accesories for this rifle:

Does anyone know where I can pick up a decent amount of surplus ammo relatively cheap? Realize that, because I live in the "Peoples republic of Mass", I cant order ammo through the mail (or even a damn Swiss army knife or a bunch of other items, but I digress). The only place I've been able to find ammo is at Cabelas and at a local Gun Store, but, their supply is limited. And, where can I find a Mark 4 scope mount or other accessories for this rifle?

I would like to take this hunting in upstate NY or VT, so, a scope would be helpful, but, not necessary.
 
If I remember correctly Gibbs made their own No 5's by cutting down Mark 4's. The Gibbs is not really a issue No 5. While the original Jungle Carbine was indeed a number 4 modified, it was done by British Armorers.
 
Thanks!!

Gentleman, I thank you for your responses and for the information..... I'll give the gentleman a shout and see what he can do is far is ammo is concerned. that is so interesting information on the car be I would never have thought that... nothing like using what you have already I suppose.
 
The Gibbs "Jungle Carbines," as the advert states, are just No. 4 rifles modified by them in some machine shop. Gibbs was a successor/subsidiary of the old Navy Arms Co., which moved their location to Martinsburg, WV. (Not sure if it was before or after Val Forgett's death or not.)

The original No. 5 "jungle carbines" had a micrometer sight adjustable to 800 yds, not the late WWII "flip sight" as used on No. 4s.

What makes your rifle somewhat superior to the original No. 5s is the fact that the No. 4 actions did not have all the lightening cuts on the receiver and barrel. These lightening cuts were what caused the "wandering zero" problem inherent in the No. 5s due to excessive receiver flex.

Enjoy the rifle; It will make a great shooting/hunting weapon, but has no historical significance.
 
Well...

I consider myself lucky to find this gun....it's is obviously never been fired before it was refurbished and seems to shoot pretty well.

as far as this rifle having no historical significance I think I would have to respectfully disagree.... while it's definitely not a collectors item it still is a unique firearm from world war 2. It was a rifles that was made out of necessity, as the english and commonwealth troops needed something a bit more handy then there s m l e in the jungles. I very much like the action of this rifle and find that is comparatively easy to field strip.

While I would love to be able to afford an m 1 Garend this will have to do for now as far as war war 2 rifles go.... the reviews I've read about how slick this bolt action is are not an understatement it's really very good as far as military rifles go. it's definitely not a mauser type of action but very good nonetheless. for under 300 dollars brand new I'm definitely not complaining!
 
JetTroop,

You need to talk to a good local gunshop that would be willing to order ammo for you from sources like Ammoman.com or other vendors. You provide him the money, he makes the order and you get your ammo when it arrives. Of course he might charge a fee for handling the transaction if ordering from a vendor he doesn't normally do business with. A cooperative dealer gets my business for other things like solvents, cleaning gear, slings, etc. which help his profit.

Sadly, it seems most of the surplus .303 ammo has dried up. The good news is that it's still made -- by Priv Partizan in Serbia and it's good ammo. Places like Ammunition2go might be a good starting point.

IIRC, some of the Gibbs rifles were given an electroless nickle finish for corrosion resistance in tropical areas. One ad featured a "silver" Jungle Carbine some years ago.

I have the .308 version - an Ishapore 2A rifle modified by Navy Arms to jungle carbine specs. Kicks like that Missouri Mule. It makes a handy bush rifle but it's not a sniper rifle by any stretch of the term. :p
 
as far as this rifle having no historical significance I think I would have to respectfully disagree....
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If a historical rifle is what you really want there are genuine No. 5's around. They aren't in the like new condition of your remanufactured fake Jungle Carbine, but are true examples of these rifles.
There are also other SMLE variants available along with many Mausers, and absolutely TONS of Russian Mosin Nagant rifles that are way more economical to shoot.
Now if it is a shooter that looks like a historical firearm, then you have a good choice. As stated before, it is probably much more accurate than an original No.5.
 
You need to talk to a good local gunshop that would be willing to order ammo for you from sources like Ammoman.com or other vendors. You provide him the money, he makes the order and you get your ammo when it arrives. Of course he might charge a fee for handling the transaction if ordering from a vendor he doesn't normally do business with. A cooperative dealer gets my business for other things like solvents, cleaning gear, slings, etc. which help his profit.
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OR....Unless he lives in some liberal wacked out state with dumb gun laws he can order the ammo himself.
http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/.303_British
 
The web site says, "Each No. 5 starts out as a hand selected No. 4 Enfield barreled action." So that is not a Rifle No. 5, it is a phony made from a No. 4. The No.4 might have had historical value but it is gone; the phony "Jungle Carbine" has none. It is like building a Model T Ford body out of sheet metal on a Toyota Corolla chassis and calling it a historical car.

Jim
 
as far as this rifle having no historical significance I think I would have to respectfully disagree.... while it's definitely not a collectors item it still is a unique firearm from world war 2. It was a rifles that was made out of necessity, as the english and commonwealth troops needed something a bit more handy then there s m l e in the jungles. I very much like the action of this rifle and find that is comparatively easy to field strip.
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Ummmm.......no. It is a rifle that was converted from an original No.4 probably within the last ten years, the only necessity being to make a profit for Gibbs Rifle Co.
 
Quote:
as far as this rifle having no historical significance I think I would have to respectfully disagree.... while it's definitely not a collectors item it still is a unique firearm from world war 2. It was a rifles that was made out of necessity, as the english and commonwealth troops needed something a bit more handy then there s m l e in the jungles. I very much like the action of this rifle and find that is comparatively easy to field strip.

Ummmm.......no. It is a rifle that was converted from an original No.4 probably within the last ten years, the only necessity being to make a profit for Gibbs Rifle Co.
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These Gibbs were done back in the 70's and 80's. Ones in excellent condition have some collector interest. It's all part of the ongoing history of military surplus rifles.

The driving force behind these No4 to No5 conversion was the No4's were not selling and the No5's were. Importers had tens of thousands of No4's laying around and needed to move them.

Gibbs and Santa Fe Arms were two of the larger No4 modifiers.
 
To answer the original question, I think real surplus ammunition will be hard to find these days, which isn't to say you can't find original factory (not necessarily British or Commonwealth) manufactured military ammunition. But you wouldn't use that to hunt with anyway. And anyway, if you live in Massachusetts, Vermont and New Hampshire aren't that far away.

I think Gibbs did a fair job on the No. 5 that I had and I also had an original No. 5, which was not a factory cut-down No. 4, by the way. Gibbs, or whoever did it, did a real good job on the flash hider and the rubber buttplate (an odd design on the original, you know, but they copied it exactly). But it lacked the micro-type rear sight and because the retained the same handguard and barrel band, the repro No 5 doesn't have the same profile but you probably wouldn't notice it. The biggest fault mine had was that the butt stock would not stay tight. But you would be correct about it having a kick, all right. It only weights about 20 ounces or so more than an M16, which itself weights about 1/2 pound more than an M1 carbine.
 
These Gibbs were done back in the 70's and 80's. Ones in excellent condition have some collector interest. It's all part of the ongoing history of military surplus rifles.
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Ummm... don't think so. Gibbs didn't even exist back in the 70s and 80s. It was part of/successor to Navy Arms after they moved to West Va.

Also, none of the Indian .308s were in the country until the 90s.

These were strictly a commercial venture by Gibbs until they went out of business a few years ago.

Val Forgett III has been slowly liquidating the remnants of Gibbs and Navy over the last few years on the internet.
 
I would have bulk ammo shipped to the home of a friend or relative across the state line, if possible.

As a matter of fact, I've sent two cases of ammo to nearby homes of two friends, in this city.
My wife never saw any evidence of the two money orders, because there was none.
 
Quote:
These Gibbs were done back in the 70's and 80's. Ones in excellent condition have some collector interest. It's all part of the ongoing history of military surplus rifles.
Ummm... don't think so. Gibbs didn't even exist back in the 70s and 80s. It was part of/successor to Navy Arms after they moved to West Va.

Also, none of the Indian .308s were in the country until the 90s.

These were strictly a commercial venture by Gibbs until they went out of business a few years ago.

Val Forgett III has been slowly liquidating the remnants of Gibbs and Navy over the last few years on the internet.
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Your right on the Gibbs date. I was thinking Santa Fe, I group those two together. I remember seeing those nickle plated monsters way back, seems like the 80's to me. But I have a hard time dealing with my daughter being middle aged.
 
As has been noted, surplus .303 dried up years ago. When you do find some, it's usually not particularly cheap and almost always comes in light green 32-round boxes (it's Pakistani I think). The green-box stuff is absolute rubbish. When I had a No. 4, I tried a bit of it because it was cheaper than any other .303 then available; even with an extra power Wolff striker spring that garbage ammo still hang-fired like a Brown Bess. If you want to shoot your Enfield inexpensively, do yourself a favor and buy S&B, Prvi Partizan, or a set of neck-sizing dies and components.
 
I might add here that British issue military ammunition has much more of a kick than American made commercial sporting ammunition. American commercial ammunition for just about anything always seems to be loaded lighter than a lot of European made ammunition, presumably because it is assumed that it is likely to be used in the very first firearm ever chambered for a given cartridge. I don't know how they see the 8mm Mauser, which had a change in the bore diameter at some point along the way. Anyhow, I also don't know how the more common European commercial loadings compare to original British loads but supposedly the Serbian and Czech is OK.
 
American commercial ammunition for just about anything always seems to be loaded lighter than a lot of European made ammunition
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There are a couple of reasons and it's not just European cartridges that get such treatment. One thing to bear in mind is that European and American ammo is loaded to two different sets of pressure specifications. American ammo, by and large, conforms to SAAMI specs while almost all European ammo is loaded to CIP specs. While the two are close enough in most cartridges to be used interchangeably, some cartridges have slightly higher CIP max pressure than SAAMI max pressure. A good example of this is 9x19 Luger, the CIP max is slightly higher than SAAMI max but not as high as SAAMI +P max (CIP does not recognize any +P designation).

The other reason is the very issue you touched upon: American ammo companies are afraid that their ammo will wind up in old, fragile guns in poor condition. 8mm Mauser is probably the worst example of this as American ammo makers are afraid that their .323" JS bullets will be shot through a gun with a .318" J bore. As I said earlier, however, it's not only European cartridges that get this treatment. 30-06 has the potential to be loaded much stouter than it commonly is (Hornady Light Magnums illustrate this) but it is kept well under max for fear that it will wind up in one of the early '03 Springfields with brittle recievers (these actually aren't even considered safe to fire). Probably the most well-known American cartrdige to be downloaded is .45-70. Handloaders and boutique ammo houses can wring truly impressive performance from this grand old cartridge in a suitably strong gun like a Marlin, Winchester, or Ruger, but the mainstream ammo makers keep it severely downloaded for fear that someone will try to shoot it in a Trapdoor Springfield or similar vintage rifle.
 
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