Gee thanks MacGille. Thanks for taking another arrogant hidden stab at a whole lot of folks who dedicate their lives and careers- even ultimatley- to the service of their communities and citizens. When are you going to start bashing Soldiers? He's just trying to make a living and make the world a little better place too ya know? Generalizing, catagorizing, and stereotyping just gets uglier the longer I live. If ever I have to give my life in the name of Assisting, Protecting, and Defending... I'd rather it not be for the likes of someone like you, but if I must, then I know I must- that's the life I chose and the oath I swore upon.
Getting stopped while CCing
- Thread starter Harry Callahan
- Start date
Gee thanks MacGille. Thanks for taking another arrogant hidden stab at a whole lot of folks who dedicate their lives and careers- even ultimatley- to the service of their communities and citizens. When are you going to start bashing Soldiers? He's just trying to make a living and make the world a little better place too ya know? Generalizing, catagorizing, and stereotyping just gets uglier the longer I live. If ever I have to give my life in the name of Assisting, Protecting, and Defending... I'd rather it not be for the likes of someone like you, but if I must, then I know I must- that's the life I chose and the oath I swore upon.
10-96 I am a veteran of three branches of the military and 3 different police departments. I have made thousands of traffic stops. I have never asked anyone if they had a gun. I never had a problem at a traffic stop other than some one who doesn't think he should get a ticket. None of the stops ended in violence. I always treated drivers like what they are, citizens who made a mistake.
As far as judging me harshly, you have the right to say what you want. But I know how cops think. I've been there and until you have too, maybe you should withhold judgement until you have. A cop's job is to make arrests and if there is the faintest chance that a crime is being commited he is sensitive to anything that can lead to an arrest. Including CCW violations.
As far as arrogance goes, readers can judge by our posts who is the arrogant one.
As far as judging me harshly, you have the right to say what you want. But I know how cops think. I've been there and until you have too, maybe you should withhold judgement until you have. A cop's job is to make arrests and if there is the faintest chance that a crime is being commited he is sensitive to anything that can lead to an arrest. Including CCW violations.
As far as arrogance goes, readers can judge by our posts who is the arrogant one.
Trigger Finger
New member
Frustrated
"I have a firm rule, I never tell any govt. official anything he doesn't need to know. If you are not doing anything worse than speeding etc. then stay in the car and keep your mouth shut. Take the ticket and go about your business. You are not committing any crime and are no danger to the cop. Until you open your mouth about carrying. Then you are in a world of S---. Your future, short and long term is in his hands. Remember, the police are not there to be your friend. You are just another As-----e to him. If you are arrested and your gun taken it's no problem for him.
The Supreme court has ruled that the police are not required to protect the citizens. They are there to protect their political masters. If the politics of the area are not gun friendly, keep your gun out of sight, and your mouth shut."
Where in the world did you develop such a hatred for police officers? You sound like a very frustrated or fired officer. I always tell the officer that I am carrying, it's what I would want to know when I was pulling people over.
Along with my DL and insurance I hand him my retired LEO card and tell him that I am carrying. Never had ANY problems, not that I get pulled over very much!
"I have a firm rule, I never tell any govt. official anything he doesn't need to know. If you are not doing anything worse than speeding etc. then stay in the car and keep your mouth shut. Take the ticket and go about your business. You are not committing any crime and are no danger to the cop. Until you open your mouth about carrying. Then you are in a world of S---. Your future, short and long term is in his hands. Remember, the police are not there to be your friend. You are just another As-----e to him. If you are arrested and your gun taken it's no problem for him.
The Supreme court has ruled that the police are not required to protect the citizens. They are there to protect their political masters. If the politics of the area are not gun friendly, keep your gun out of sight, and your mouth shut."
Where in the world did you develop such a hatred for police officers? You sound like a very frustrated or fired officer. I always tell the officer that I am carrying, it's what I would want to know when I was pulling people over.
Along with my DL and insurance I hand him my retired LEO card and tell him that I am carrying. Never had ANY problems, not that I get pulled over very much!
I don't have to inform the officer in KS but when they run my DL it will show I have a permit. After a lot of thought I have decided that if I am stopped and carrying I will give the officer my permit and them know where my gun is. Under no circumstances will I remove my gun for them. I will exit the car and let them remove it if they wish but I'm not laying a finger on it. The last think I want is for me to be removing my gun to hand it over and have the cop misread some movement and decide that I'm going to turn it on them and have them draw and shoot me. I'd be lying there dead and they'd have a justified shooting, "he was going for his gun".
I dont see what business it is of the cop, or anyone for that matter, if I have a gun or not. If I'm not doing anything that would put me in a position that would require his taking it from me, then get on with the traffic stop or whatever and be on your way. My gun is as dangerous to him, as his is to me, nothing more. I'm not advocating doing anything wrong, far from it. I just dont see that my gun is any of his business.
I'm just curious why so many are so eager to "comply" with purely control designed licensing, and without complaint. It seems that for many, that permit is more of a status symbol, and they seem to think that having that precious permit makes them special. All it is, is gun registration and population control at another level, nothing more.
Personally, I think open carry is a mistake and draws unnecessary attention to you, but if it makes you feel big and important, hey have at it.
Concealed is concealed, doesnt matter who it is thats approaching. The last thing anyone you encounter should know, is that your wearing a gun. If you've done nothing wrong, why would you feel nervous about anything or the need to inform anyone you have a gun? Are you saying every cop you encounter, no matter what reason, you should whip out your permit and blurt out "I have a gun"? Why? Do you do it for anyone else?
What about "your" safety? That cop is nothing more than another person. How do you even know hes a real cop? If I've done nothing more than get pulled over for speeding, and am in no way belligerent to them, what other issue is there than the ticket or warning? My gun is of no concern to them, just as theirs should be of no concern to me.
The part I dont understand here is, if I'm a law abiding citizen, doing nothing wrong, other than a minor "nuisance" violation, what makes the cop any different than the dog warden, or code enforcement officer, etc? Do you blabber off to them that you have a gun when you are having a conversation with them over some sort of violation? If its not a requirement by law, then keep your mouth shut. Unless of course, it makes you feel important to let the cop know "you" can and do have a gun (because they gave you permission to), then by all means, show him how important you are.
The first time i was pulled over after getting my CCW, I handed over my ccw with my ODL
big mistake.
His first question was if I had a weapon in the vehicle, I said yes.
He then told me to put both of my hands out of the car and step out, I did.
He then proceeded to retrieve my pistol and search my suburban for any other weapons.
when it was all said and done i was stopped for ~45 minutes, myself and my vehicle were searched, i was treated in a manner far from professional, and then was given a warning for going 60mph in a 55
I was not rude or disrespectful to the officer in any way, i know that under any and all circumstances that will only hurt my situation, yet i was still treated harshly and ignored by the officer who did not even tell me why he pulled me over until he was done searching my vehicle.
Of course the officers would like to know if you are carrying so that they can gauge any perceived danger. The downfall to this is that you are instantly a greater danger and or threat to the officer and they can choose to react to it as they see fit.
Officers are just people, and like most people their first instinct is to protect themselves. As a ccw holder, the officers humanity in this regard is actually a liability to your safety.
big mistake.
His first question was if I had a weapon in the vehicle, I said yes.
He then told me to put both of my hands out of the car and step out, I did.
He then proceeded to retrieve my pistol and search my suburban for any other weapons.
when it was all said and done i was stopped for ~45 minutes, myself and my vehicle were searched, i was treated in a manner far from professional, and then was given a warning for going 60mph in a 55
I was not rude or disrespectful to the officer in any way, i know that under any and all circumstances that will only hurt my situation, yet i was still treated harshly and ignored by the officer who did not even tell me why he pulled me over until he was done searching my vehicle.
Of course the officers would like to know if you are carrying so that they can gauge any perceived danger. The downfall to this is that you are instantly a greater danger and or threat to the officer and they can choose to react to it as they see fit.
Officers are just people, and like most people their first instinct is to protect themselves. As a ccw holder, the officers humanity in this regard is actually a liability to your safety.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I have a lot of friends who are LEOs and I've never heard of them asking you to hand over the gun. The ones I asked are pretty much indignant at the idea of it. It just seems plain stupid to them.
Like I said before, we have a right to carry because we are law abiding citizens. If we're not law abiding citizens we forfeit our right to carry just like we forfeit our right to vote. The advice above about handing over the permit with the license was and describing the whereabouts of the gun was, to a man, the desired action of my friend LEOs.
And you, sir, are! Some other people are evidently so jaded and bored with their job that they have developed a depth if cynicism I didn't think possible.
And, since you were legal, you were released. You were probably a little shaken and probably a little P.O.ed, but no real harm was done. You were delayed a little, that's all.
I did not have any physical wounds if that's what you mean
the very fact that i was detained solely because of my complete legality is a problem in and of itself.
the fact that i was treated with hostility because i was an honest and law obiding citizen is a problem
I have learned my lesson though. Needlessly informing the officer places me in danger. It is a mistake I will not make again
the officer is doing what he feels will protect him, and i'll do what i need to protect myself from the officer
Harry Callahan
New member
Wow. Never meant to open up a can of worms. After reading everyone's posts I think I can understand both sides. On one hand you don't want to volunteer any information you don't have to, which could possibly be construed as a threat and could backfire on a law abiding CHL holder, or does one try to diffuse a possibly uncomfortable situation by letting the LEO know up front that you are carrying. In the latter situation I wonder if by letting the LEO know you are carrying he/she knows right away that you are a law abiding citizen and may be more inclined to give you a break. Of course, it's best to check the laws of the state you are carrying in first.
Harry said:
I started to appologize for the fact that there is such a wide array of Police Officers- from gung-ho over tacticle and jumpy to just plain power hungry jerks to the guy that's the poster boy for the local police ball. But, I'm just a guy trying to do my job and I have no control over the ones that give the rest of us a bad name. As far as Regular Joe Citizen having firearms? I agree that there needs to be limits as far as prohibiting criminals, draft dodgers, non-child support payers, and the unfortunate mentally handicapped folks from having firearms. But, I've always shared the same philosophy as the late Col Jeff Cooper: An armed society is a polite society. So, that said, let me add this- Arm up folks- there's a great many of you here that I'd be honored to shoot/hunt with.
Bingo. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I started to appologize for the fact that there is such a wide array of Police Officers- from gung-ho over tacticle and jumpy to just plain power hungry jerks to the guy that's the poster boy for the local police ball. But, I'm just a guy trying to do my job and I have no control over the ones that give the rest of us a bad name. As far as Regular Joe Citizen having firearms? I agree that there needs to be limits as far as prohibiting criminals, draft dodgers, non-child support payers, and the unfortunate mentally handicapped folks from having firearms. But, I've always shared the same philosophy as the late Col Jeff Cooper: An armed society is a polite society. So, that said, let me add this- Arm up folks- there's a great many of you here that I'd be honored to shoot/hunt with.
I have asked a few LEO's about this topic and they all pretty much seem to have near the same reply.:
We appreciate the fact that the party inform us. We are going to find out if you have a permit anyway in this state (CO) so if they are not hiding anything then why not tell the officer. Hand them the permit at the same time you give them your license etc. Let the officer guide you as far as your actions. Some will want to retain custody of the firearm for the duration of the stop. As long as the piece is legal they have no bounds to keep it. Others will simply ask that you keep your hands away from the firearm and visible at all times.
All of them said that if they pull somebody over and they are not advised of the permit they automatically go on the defensive.
When you get pulled over there are a couple of things you can do that will help keep the officer calm and cool:
Pull over as quickly and safely as possible. Turn your steering wheel towards the curb and shut off the engine and set your hands on the wheel. DO NOT GET OUT OF THE VEHICLE! Be polite and do not argue with the officer. That is what court is for and it is a sure way to lose in court. Most LEO's write notes on their copy of the citation. Wouldn't you rather the judge read that the offender was curtious and respectful to the officer or that he was a loudmouth, evasive and argumentive jerk. This can make a huge difference on your outcome.
The course of action I take is not to get pulled over in the first place though.
We appreciate the fact that the party inform us. We are going to find out if you have a permit anyway in this state (CO) so if they are not hiding anything then why not tell the officer. Hand them the permit at the same time you give them your license etc. Let the officer guide you as far as your actions. Some will want to retain custody of the firearm for the duration of the stop. As long as the piece is legal they have no bounds to keep it. Others will simply ask that you keep your hands away from the firearm and visible at all times.
All of them said that if they pull somebody over and they are not advised of the permit they automatically go on the defensive.
When you get pulled over there are a couple of things you can do that will help keep the officer calm and cool:
Pull over as quickly and safely as possible. Turn your steering wheel towards the curb and shut off the engine and set your hands on the wheel. DO NOT GET OUT OF THE VEHICLE! Be polite and do not argue with the officer. That is what court is for and it is a sure way to lose in court. Most LEO's write notes on their copy of the citation. Wouldn't you rather the judge read that the offender was curtious and respectful to the officer or that he was a loudmouth, evasive and argumentive jerk. This can make a huge difference on your outcome.
The course of action I take is not to get pulled over in the first place though.
Hellbent11
New member
I have been stopped before with 7 firearms in the vehicle(2 MPH over the limit!), 1 LOADED under the seat and the rest in cases on the rear bench seat of the pickup (No CCW at the time but told by Local LE in my state/area legal in vehicle). I kept my hands on the wheel and said "Officer I don't want to alarm you but I have several firearms in the vehicle." He asked me to "step out" and after a sit down on the bumper (in handcuffs) and a check on my ID I was released. Apparently the issue was that they were in the cab with me (which was the most secure place they could be rather than the open pickup bed) and rather than arresting me for "improper display of firearms" they released me due to my "honesty." I try to take the position that LEO's are our "friends" and be as courtious an polite as can be possible in dealing with them. Think about how you would feel in their shoes... We pride ourselves on being the "good guys" but they are too...They're on our side. Honesty is the best policy.
Hellbent
Hellbent
Whoa, calm down there guy. I don't think you responded to the correct thread.
I don't see anywhere in this thread that anybody endorsed the idea of any illegal activity. I don't see anywhere that anybody said anything about being macho during a traffic stop.
If some one has a permit/license then how are they going to get busted for having a "piece illegally stuck in his pocket"?
If there is no legal requirement for a person to inform then why should he be harrassed for not informing?
Why was he detained in the first place? He was obviously legal. I can't see how anyone could think that a person who is doing nothing wrong & went above the requirements of the law to "make the officer more comfortable" and subsequently had himself & his vehicle searched for 45 minutes as having "no real harm...done" to them.
Sad.
Sounds like it was an illegal search. Where was the probable cause and for what offense?
Living in CO we have the legal right to carry concealed in our vehicle w/o having a CCW. What would be the correct course of action in this situation? Personally, I'll keep that info to myself unless the officer asks me to get out of the vehicle. I can't see that happening, as it's never happened in the past. Were it to occur, however, I'd then inform the officer and then comply with his/her directions.
Ah, I love Philadelphia lawyers! LEOs are allowed to search anywhere within reach of the subject when approached - for weapons only. Since a weapon can be as small as your palm, they can conduct a VERY thorough search if they desire.
I am NOT taking up for the actions of the police in the instance we're talking about. I'm just making the point that their actions were legal, however unjust and harassing it may have seemed. Let me go on record saying they did NOT act like professionals. Maybe they didn't like the idea of private citizens having guns? Maybe you looked like someone who just robbed a bank? Maybe you sassed them a little? We don't really know what provoked them to do what they did.
The bottom line is STILL:
Be legal
Be respectful
Don't resist
Don't argue
They have nothing to lose, you have everything to lose. You'll have your day in court.