Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
De-escalation is not in the same book as dealing with an attack. Two different things, so let's stay on topic, please. 
getting chl soon. advice on de-escalating?
- Thread starter David spargenator
- Start date
I notice the word criminal used in this thread. If we're talking about street crime then giving the mugger your wallet is usually the best practice.
But in many violent confrontations the people involved don't become criminals until the violence happens.
Stay away from places that serve alcohol for recreational purposes. Especially were there is a lot of excess testosterone and alcohol. After doing that the amount of violent confrontations I've been in dropped to zero.
Take a note from our Buddhist friends and start the deescalation inside yourself first. It is often our own reactions to others that starts the climb toward violence. Being self aware as to how your words, actions, and reactions effect the world around you.
I don't want to start throwing around words like duality or illusion, but a study of various life philosophies won't hurt too much.
To quote Kant: "All men need a master, and that is themselves, through reason".
The only one we can truly have control over is ourselves.
But in many violent confrontations the people involved don't become criminals until the violence happens.
Stay away from places that serve alcohol for recreational purposes. Especially were there is a lot of excess testosterone and alcohol. After doing that the amount of violent confrontations I've been in dropped to zero.
Take a note from our Buddhist friends and start the deescalation inside yourself first. It is often our own reactions to others that starts the climb toward violence. Being self aware as to how your words, actions, and reactions effect the world around you.
I don't want to start throwing around words like duality or illusion, but a study of various life philosophies won't hurt too much.
To quote Kant: "All men need a master, and that is themselves, through reason".
The only one we can truly have control over is ourselves.
FireForged
New member
There are people who wake up every morning a criminal. criminal can be a way of life, a personality, a concept, an ideology, an attitude. Criminality is not necessarily a single act.
This is a very limited subset of the possible situations where deadly force might become necessary.
Rather than trying to make an exhaustive list, it's instructive to consider one possibility to make the point. Based on statistics on assault and murder it is quite likely that an attacker may be an acquaintance or family member. That's obviously a situation where most people would try to de-escalate before opening fire.
kilimanjaro
New member
It's not illegal to defend your life and limb, or those of others.
Be sure that's what you are doing. Remember you have the power of life and death over anyone in front of the muzzle of your firearm. Don't use that power for any other purpose. Your ego, a piece of property, a bit of money, self-satisfaction, grandstanding, any reason other than defending life and limb will put you in jail and cost you everything you own or will own.
Look at Zimmermann today. His life is ruined, and will stay that way. All he had to do was remain in his car. Legally, he was justified. But the fact remains that he got out of his car and went to close proximity to a suspicious person for no reason other than something that may have been police officer wanna-be. That started the chain of events.
As far as de-escalation, if you don't already do this, begin doing it now as a life change :
Realize you are not a police officer. Minding your own business prevents a great many situations from developing.
Lose your aggressiveness, if you haven't already. That includes aggressive driving, being the big mouth at the café, intimidation, whatever.
Lose your sensitivity. You bump into someone in the doorway, apologize. Everytime. Someone cuts you off, let it go. Someone in the tavern decides you are the ugliest poindexter he has ever seen, let it go. Get up and leave.
Become a gentleman. Civil and polite to all, including the scummy vagrant who wants a dollar. Go ahead, snarl at him about getting a job, maybe the drug-addled petty criminal pulls a knife on you for that and things escalate into a shooting. Lots easier to say, "sorry, I don't carry cash" and keep on.
Be sure that's what you are doing. Remember you have the power of life and death over anyone in front of the muzzle of your firearm. Don't use that power for any other purpose. Your ego, a piece of property, a bit of money, self-satisfaction, grandstanding, any reason other than defending life and limb will put you in jail and cost you everything you own or will own.
Look at Zimmermann today. His life is ruined, and will stay that way. All he had to do was remain in his car. Legally, he was justified. But the fact remains that he got out of his car and went to close proximity to a suspicious person for no reason other than something that may have been police officer wanna-be. That started the chain of events.
As far as de-escalation, if you don't already do this, begin doing it now as a life change :
Realize you are not a police officer. Minding your own business prevents a great many situations from developing.
Lose your aggressiveness, if you haven't already. That includes aggressive driving, being the big mouth at the café, intimidation, whatever.
Lose your sensitivity. You bump into someone in the doorway, apologize. Everytime. Someone cuts you off, let it go. Someone in the tavern decides you are the ugliest poindexter he has ever seen, let it go. Get up and leave.
Become a gentleman. Civil and polite to all, including the scummy vagrant who wants a dollar. Go ahead, snarl at him about getting a job, maybe the drug-addled petty criminal pulls a knife on you for that and things escalate into a shooting. Lots easier to say, "sorry, I don't carry cash" and keep on.
johnelmore
New member
I am not an expert on de escalation, a psychologist, etc. However, what I do when I see someone upset or acting erratically is not to say anything and to keep a straight face. Ultimately, I try to distance myself from odd situations whenever I can. If someones behavior doesnt seem right I try to move away.
I dont think there is any one size fits all solution to it. I just try to keep myself from being a contributing factor and try to exit. For a police officer who must be there on the scene their tactics would be different, but for me Joe Average Im going to try to make an exit.
There was a time when I was faced with a revolver. I simply didnt move or say anything. I kept a straight face and my eyes were on the man with the revolver. I got out of it. If that was the right thing to do I dont know, but Im still alive.
I dont think there is any one size fits all solution to it. I just try to keep myself from being a contributing factor and try to exit. For a police officer who must be there on the scene their tactics would be different, but for me Joe Average Im going to try to make an exit.
There was a time when I was faced with a revolver. I simply didnt move or say anything. I kept a straight face and my eyes were on the man with the revolver. I got out of it. If that was the right thing to do I dont know, but Im still alive.
I've already come to my personal conclusion that I will never use a gun on an attacker who is an acquaintance or family member of mine - not even if my own life is in danger. As far as I'm concerned, for me these situations are "gun-off-limits."
Like I said, I carry a gun for one reason only - to defend against deadly ambush style attacks by strangers. Even road rage incidents - I'm not going to pull a gun and start threatening or shooting it while I'm trying to drive or even sitting at a light. If I'm stopped, blocked and under attack, this is no longer road rage.
If you think I'm being too narrow minded about this, please give me some situations where you think I might consider using a gun on an acquaintance or family member?
I work in a tiny office setting (no one is going to go postal), I'm a male (so I'm not going to be date-raped or beaten by a spouse); and I don't hang around bars, drunks or druggies.
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Then you should spend a lot of time learning how to de-escalate effectively given that you have made a firm decision to not resort to deadly force in these situations. De-escalation is probably one of the best possible responses in a situation where the deadly force option is off the table.
I don't think you understood my post at all. I don't think your decision about deadly force and family/friends is unique, and that was my point. Most people would have a difficult time using deadly force against a family member or acquaintance even if they were in serious danger from such a person. Combine that fact with the statistics which indicate that attackers are often family members or friends and it becomes obvious why it is important to learn de-escalation skills.
During my 8-year EMS career I was regularly thrown into tense situations that sometimes came to blows. The ONLY times a physical altercation became unavoidable the assailant was intoxicated... And a couple of times high on PCP or something.
We were never given any in-depth instruction on talking someone down or deescalation, but you pick up some tricks along the way.
[1] Speak clearly, calmly, and with a level tone. Yelling or being too "sing-songy" is imposing and condescending.
[2] Expose your palms to the subject. You are not a threat. You are not an enemy. Do not go into a clenched-fisted boxer's stance... Keep your shields and weapons powered down; the Klingons may see anything else as provocation.
[3] Take your time, inhale, count to five, exhale slowly. Be aware of the situation and your reaction to it. Do not allow the subject's demeanor and attitude to reflect onto you. See the big picture.
[4] Talk is powerful. Ask questions, get to the root of the problem. Find an opening for some humor.
[5] If tensions cannot be eased in a minute or two it is possible the subject has already made up their mind and is going to act violently regardless of what you do. Fight or flight will kick in.
I have been the first on scene for wounded, knife-weilding criminals who only saw flashing lights and a uniform. I have been thrown into the middle of domestic disturbances and the aftermaths of violent crimes. I have been blamed for the death of a young woman by her parents when here injuries proved too severe to help. In all my time I had only ever been personally attacked once by an angry ex-Marine who was high on PCP and thought we were taking him to a gas chamber... No amount of talk was getting me out of that one.
We were never given any in-depth instruction on talking someone down or deescalation, but you pick up some tricks along the way.
[1] Speak clearly, calmly, and with a level tone. Yelling or being too "sing-songy" is imposing and condescending.
[2] Expose your palms to the subject. You are not a threat. You are not an enemy. Do not go into a clenched-fisted boxer's stance... Keep your shields and weapons powered down; the Klingons may see anything else as provocation.
[3] Take your time, inhale, count to five, exhale slowly. Be aware of the situation and your reaction to it. Do not allow the subject's demeanor and attitude to reflect onto you. See the big picture.
[4] Talk is powerful. Ask questions, get to the root of the problem. Find an opening for some humor.
[5] If tensions cannot be eased in a minute or two it is possible the subject has already made up their mind and is going to act violently regardless of what you do. Fight or flight will kick in.
I have been the first on scene for wounded, knife-weilding criminals who only saw flashing lights and a uniform. I have been thrown into the middle of domestic disturbances and the aftermaths of violent crimes. I have been blamed for the death of a young woman by her parents when here injuries proved too severe to help. In all my time I had only ever been personally attacked once by an angry ex-Marine who was high on PCP and thought we were taking him to a gas chamber... No amount of talk was getting me out of that one.
Once someone has crossed the line to aggressive conduct it is very hard to deescalate. Hard and dangerous as he will very likely see your attempt to deescalate as weakness. An aggressive act on your part might be seen as a challenge, and aggression breeds aggression.
Your voice and your body language sends messages to the potential predator. That actually begins all the way at the start of his initial evaluation of you as prey. Let's take eye contact for example. If I glance at someone and my body language is that of confident strength I am simply saying, " I see you, you do not concern me." If I stare I either send a message of fear or a challenge. But, at a point the eye lock is important as it sends a message that you are not afraid and you will destroy him.
Let's understand that a lion does not attack a lion unless he see's him as weak or he is provoked. And a lion knows a lion. Simply, the risk is too great.
But, biggest thing, don't expect to walk through a vipers pit while they are slithering and not expect to get bitten. So stay the heck out of bad areas and away from predators.
I carry a firearm always when I'm off duty. I do not go into area's that bad stuff happens. I would no sooner go to central Cleveland at night than I would step off a 4 story building. If you do then you are asking for it, and what you ask for you will eventually get.
Your voice and your body language sends messages to the potential predator. That actually begins all the way at the start of his initial evaluation of you as prey. Let's take eye contact for example. If I glance at someone and my body language is that of confident strength I am simply saying, " I see you, you do not concern me." If I stare I either send a message of fear or a challenge. But, at a point the eye lock is important as it sends a message that you are not afraid and you will destroy him.
Let's understand that a lion does not attack a lion unless he see's him as weak or he is provoked. And a lion knows a lion. Simply, the risk is too great.
But, biggest thing, don't expect to walk through a vipers pit while they are slithering and not expect to get bitten. So stay the heck out of bad areas and away from predators.
I carry a firearm always when I'm off duty. I do not go into area's that bad stuff happens. I would no sooner go to central Cleveland at night than I would step off a 4 story building. If you do then you are asking for it, and what you ask for you will eventually get.