Gen 4 Glock 19 failures

K

ks_wayward_son

New member
First off...I used Tulammo and Brown Bear 115 grains. Simple target/range fodder. The Glock came with 3 mags, as is standard for the Gen 4 models. I had an approximately 90% failure rate with this ammo. No kidding. Failure to feed after failure to feed....failure to eject after failure to eject. Every magazine. When I attempted the last round in a mag, the slide wouldn't lock back. I know that using this type of ammo probably voids the warranty under Glock...not to use steel case ammo. But, I bought my gun through a dealer on Gunbroker and it is backed by Davidson's Guarantee...if that makes any difference.

I do have some Remington 124 gr. that I could try. And some Federal target ammo which of course is 115 grain.

I have heard that the dual recoil springs in the Gen 4's are much more sprung than the other models. It would be ludicrous to give up on the 19 right now, as it was my very first outing; however I was expecting a great deal more out of the gun (hearing about the absolute reliability from more owners than not.) In no way am talking down on the firearm; after all the gun does have a tremendous track record. I am just trying to hash out the possible solutions. More powerful/potent ammo for the first several mags...with the possibility that the gun may ease into the target loads? :confused:

Thanks for input that fellow gunners here on TFL may suggest.
 
Fire that thing with some real 124 gr ammo. Federal American Eagle, WWB, or something.. Doesn't have to be top shelf. Also, did you field strip, clean, and relube the gun before firing it?
 
Yes I would definitely not give up on the gun at all just yet. I do not have a Glock 19, but the only pistol that I do use and carry is a gen 4 Glock 20 in 10mm, and my mother only shoots and carries a gen 4 Glock 33 in .357 Sig. So I do have lots of experience with the gen 4 Glocks. The problem you are describing sounds like it is probably some malfunction in the gun itself. It probably is just something minor, and due to Glocks construction with very very few parts most problems with Glocks are not huge repairs. But with the slide failing to lock like you said makes me think that it would be the gun and not the ammo. The fact that you tried all three magazines and had the same results with all of the magazines lets you know it is not the magazines. Brown Bear ammo is a cheap brand but I have shot lots of it through my AR-15 with zero problems and good accuracy. But don't give up on the gun and maybe take it back to where you got it from or to a smith and let them evaluate it for you.
 
Have you cleaned the chamber? Not just the barrel, but the actual chamber. Problem with steel cased ammo, is it doesn't expand like brass and seal the chamber very well. This lets all that carbon build up in the chamber, making the chamber smaller, which can lead to:
Failures to feed
Difficulty extracting spent cases which slows the slide down causing failures to eject and failure to lock the slide back on an empty magazine.
This also causes more strain on the extractor.

I would not shoot brass cased ammo in it until you give the chamber a good thorough cleaning. Doing so could lead to a stuck case and broken extractor/case rim.

These are some of the many reason why I don't shoot steel cased ammo. The cost savings is not enough to justify the headaches...
 
Glocks never malfunction. Must be you. :cool:

Nah, Glocks love to malfunction. That said, 90% failure rate seems a tad extreme. I wouldn't be surprised at some poor ejection, but not being able to feed or eject to that level is pretty surprising.

Just to rule the user out a bit, are you pretty experienced at handgun shooting and have you encountered this behavior before with handguns you've used?
 
I have a G19 Gen 3 that has no problems with tulammo. Have not had a chance to wring out a Gen 4. However, glocks are designed around full power nato rounds, and the Russian ammo are all known to be low end of the power scale. The Gen 4 was redesigned to have less recoil, and part of that is how hard the slide smacks the frame, so a stronger spring setup will help in that area.
I would make sure the chamber is good and clean, and try some full powered ammo, preferably with a 124 gr bullet. Kind of "break it in some".
Your warranty is fine.
I did have one customer come in with a Gen 4 he couldn't get to run. He had 9mm mak in it. Some gun shop told him that's what fit his gun. Still didn't hurt it, even running those way too large bullets down the barrel.
 
Try leaving the slide locked back for a while. If the problem is an overly stout RSA, that might help a bit.

Of course that may not be the problem. I'm not up on the specific details of all of the troubles with different Glock models in recent years, but I know that they've modified RSAs and extractors more than once for some of their Gen4 models. Make sure yours has the most up-to-date components.
 
I have fired thousands of rounds through my Glock 19's, all the previous models, from 1984, (Glock 17 in 1984) including my Gen4, the Gen4 gave me miles of trouble!

Went to a Glock match at my Home Club.
Two Glock armorers were there. Left it with them on Friday, picked up on the Sunday. They had left, my Buddy had my pistol, no idea what they did.

Never failed in any way since? In IDPA Matches, I use either my carry Gen4, or my Gen 3. I feel the trigger is a wee bit better on my Gen3. But I like the feel of the Gen4 more.

There is no doubt that the Gen4 pistols had major problems, now totally eradicated, but the cover up was shameful! Remember the Glock invented statement, "Limp wristing"

Rant over, I still feel the Glock 19 is the best carry pistol in the World!
 
I bought three Gen 4s, 23, 21, 17. The 23 had ftfs from the start. I messed around with it for far to long trying different tricks. Finally sent it back to Glock and got it squared away. BTW I fired well over a 1,000 rounds of Tula in the 17 with no problems.
 
Thank you for all the replies and suggestions everyone. I have read about some difficulties that people have experienced with the Gen 4s, but was hoping mine had all the "updated parts." TunnelRat, I have had some experience shooting, had just fired my 1911 prior and did alright...but first time ever shooting a Glock I certainly wouldn't rule out myself as the problem :o.

I did field strip, clean/lube the 19 before ever taking it to the range so that it would be ready to run. As someone mentioned, I will definitely give lock the slide back for several days to see if that loosens the compression of the springs a bit. But very first thing...I will give it a dang good cleaning and run some more stout 124 or 147 grainers through it to rule out ammo as the culprit.

Question: Does Glock offer a reduced spring strength just for target/practice ammo usage? Say like getting an 18 pound spring instead of a 20# for a 1911?

If all else fails, I will definitely send it back to Glock cuz I really liked how it fit my hand as opposed to the Gen 3, as someone else had mentioned.

Thanks again, TFL.
 
I had the same problem with my Gen3 19 and Brown Bear & yellow box ammo. Then I went and bought one box each of about 5 different name brands and had no problems with any of that. So for awhile I just used better ammo 124 gr. or heavier. Last summer during one of my range outings I took all the partial boxes of ammo I had laying around, including the rest of the Brown bear and yellow box and it all fired fine. I just chalked it up to needing a bit of a break-in, and had no problems since.
 
I have heard that the dual recoil springs in the Gen 4's are much more sprung than the other models.
Click to expand...
Is it an early gen 4? Check the Recoil spring assembly thoroughly. They had problems with them when they first came out. I saw a guy next to me at the range with a gen4 have the same problem. I got him to break the gun down and his RSA was Binding up when fully extended to about 1/4 compression.

From Glock:
GLOCK Inc. is voluntarily exchanging the recoil spring assembly (RSA) on its new Gen4 pistols (with the exception of G26 and G27 models). GLOCK has developed a new design to the recoil spring assemblies on its Gen4 pistols to replace several variations that are functioning in the market today. As part of the company’s commitment to perfection, we are voluntarily exchanging the existing RSA in order to ensure our products perform up to GLOCK’s stringent standards.

GLOCK is replacing the RSA in all Gen4s sold before July 22, 2011 at no cost. Please complete the following procedure to receive a new RSA. The RSA can safely and simply be swapped out using normal field stripping protocols. If you have additional questions, please contact GLOCK at 1-877-745-8523 with your serial number and model number.
Click to expand...
Found here :http://us.glock.com/customer-service/recoil-spring-exchange

New vs old RSA :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEOO8otCetk
 
Call Glock customer service. I had an issue with mine and when I called them, they were able to tell me by the serial number whether I had all of the updated parts.

I noticed this about your post, too:
When I attempted the last round in a mag, the slide wouldn't lock back.
Click to expand...
Have you just tried putting an empty mag in the gun to see if the slide will lock back?
 
Looking at the aforementioned Youtube video, I can confirm that I have the newer RSA. I might give them a call as a definite confirmation that all parts are updated. However, when I checked the fired casing data, it had said that the testing had been done in June of 2013...more than likely everything is updated.

Curiously, I found this video and if nothing else, it would appear that this procedure could lighten the trigger pull. I'm not completely opposed to doing work on my own firearms, but this would unquestionably void the warranty. :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj8Qt8ofCAw

More than likely, if the hotter ammo doesn't resolve issues, I will be sending it back to Glock for work.
 
Ok...update time. Went out today with 100 rounds of Brown Bear and Tula 115 grainers. Yep, I said that I was gonna try some hotter ammo, but I did some more research and decided "Hmmm, maybe it was me?" :confused: Turns out, uh huh...this Gen 4 is just as reliable as all the others people have raved about. Only 1 failure to feed out of 100 rounds this time. And that was because I sorta tried to duplicate the failure to ascertain if my assumptions about the failures were true.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't limp wristing previously, but maybe my strong and support hand thumbs were riding the slide, manipulating the slide release prematurely, or both. I just needed to be more conscientious about grip/hand placement I think. Which doesn't seem completely out of the question since I've used this thumbs forward grip on my other firearms. A few years ago, I also found this to be the culprit on a WWII P38 and Yugo M57 (Tokarev). They would never lock back on the last round. I made sure my fingers were nowhere near the slide releases...and there ya go. Problem solved.

I didn't check to see where the empties were landing, but none of them whacked me in the face like some ppl had been commenting on regarding the Gen 4's extraction...bonus there.

Next step is to actually pattern on some paper to get better acquainted with the sights. I was simply testing for function this second time out...and blasting some water-filled milk jugs and bottles for giggles. :D It was sorta tough to not want to just blast away...the Glocks seem phenomenal about running very fast.

The Dark Side has beckoned me, and I shan't be resisting.
 
This V V V
I'm pretty sure I wasn't limp wristing previously, but maybe my strong and support hand thumbs were riding the slide, manipulating the slide release prematurely, or both. I just needed to be more conscientious about grip/hand placement I think.
Click to expand...

Does not cause this V V V

I had an approximately 90% failure rate with this ammo. No kidding. Failure to feed after failure to feed....failure to eject after failure to eject.
Click to expand...

In a Glock as easy as one would think. I have tried it and not only is it awkward to get the thumb up (it must be to ride the slide) and inflict a lot of force to get a %90 failure rate. I had to try hard to get %5 and believe me the slide lets you know! Not saying it didn't happen just not very likely.

However this V V V
limp wristing previously
Click to expand...

Can cause this V V V
I had an approximately 90% failure rate with this ammo. No kidding. Failure to feed after failure to feed....failure to eject after failure to eject.
Click to expand...
You sure you weren't limping that thing?:)
 
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