Gate vs Tube

gate man

Pretty much despise tubes. I've seen them bent, as well as lost, (all on .22's) which relegates your repeater into the single shot mode. My take on it is the tube was the first evolution for the lever rifle, with the original 1860's Henry.

The Winchester rifles with gates that followed, were the next step up in improving the lever rifle. I know the Brooklyn Henry's use a tube, and they're neat rifles, and very popular, but I wish they had gates.
 
Pretty much despise tubes. I've seen them bent, as well as lost, (all on .22's) which relegates your repeater into the single shot mode.
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An owner's stupidity is no reason to relegate a design to the trash heap. ...Especially when the magazine plunger tube doesn't have to be removed for use!

If a person is so ignorant that they can't keep track of an 18+ inch-long major part of their firearm, then perhaps they should consider collecting stamps.


People lose their house keys all the time. It doesn't mean that a keyed door lock is a bad idea.
 
I will not buy a lever without a loading gate, just my preference, I did not like the loading tube in 22's and sure don't want it in a big bore rifle. I am going to pay what they want for a big bore Henry I want what I want and will not settle for less.
 
I've been shooting .22's with tubes for as long as I've been shooting. My first one had a tube but it went in through the butt(Browning). I guess that qualifies as a tube feed. I have had a lot of tube feeds since then and have never bent a tube or lost one. The only centerfire lever action I would want that loads from the front is an 1860 Henry. For the rest of them a gate is a must have.
 
I've shot tube feeding 22lr rifles for 60 years and while I'm careful, no one can convenience me that pointing the muzzle of any firearm towards me is as safe as pointing it away from me. Every training class I've ever given on firearms has started with a safety review and what is the second of the Four Cardinal Rules of Gun Safety? "Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy." So, why would I want the muzzle pointed at me while I'm loading it if I don't have to?

Yes, I know that muzzle loaders only load through the muzzle but that doesn't mean that they are as safe as loading a single shot black powder cartridge though the chamber either. It's a matter of risk management. How much are you willing to accept and under what circumstances do you wish to accept it. Because there are numerous leverguns available with a side loading gate and those versions without one don't have any compelling feature or allure that would cause me to 'need' one, I'm perfectly satisfied with electing to restrict my centerfire firearms to ones that load with the muzzle pointed away from me. It's a choice.

So, why doesn't anyone make a 22lr with a side loading gate, you ask? Because the design of the 22 short, long and long rifle round can't withstand lateral loads that would be imparted when loading it through a conventional side loading without damaging the round.

You see, the 22 short, long and long rifle round round uses a 'heeled bullet' design which means that the bullet is the same diameter as the case, and has a narrower short "heel" portion that fits in the mouth of the case, holding the bullet lightly in place. Because the bullet is made of soft lead, this short heel is neither long enough or strong enough to resist the side loads of inserting it into a spring loaded magazine through a side loading gate without damaging the bullet seating.
 
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So, why would I want the muzzle pointed at me while I'm loading it if I don't have to?
Who says you have to? That has absolutely nothing to do with gate vs tube.
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I mentioned it earlier because someone objected to tube magazines as being riskier when you have your hand in front of either the muzzle or the end of the tube. In absolute safety terms--I see no difference whatsoever between either the tube or gate load--your cartridges end up stacked in the same way subject to the same stresses.

If there's a way to load a muzzle loader without at least your hand in front of the muzzle--I'm sure not familiar with it.
 
A gate on a lever action makes it easier to top-up the magazine in a hunting situation. However, if one has emptied his magazine shooting at fleeing game, one does expect another shot to be very beneficial. Nevertheless, if shooting at attacking Indians, topping up the magazine may be a consideration.:rolleyes:
 
I mentioned it earlier because someone objected to tube magazines as being riskier when you have your hand in front of either the muzzle or the end of the tube. In absolute safety terms--I see no difference whatsoever between either the tube or gate load--your cartridges end up stacked in the same way subject to the same stresses.

If there's a way to load a muzzle loader without at least your hand in front of the muzzle--I'm sure not familiar with it.
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Some people are just ridiculous.:rolleyes:
 
I've shot tube feeding 22lr rifles for 60 years and while I'm careful, no one can convenience me that pointing the muzzle of any firearm towards me is as safe as pointing it away from me. Every training class I've ever given on firearms has started with a safety review and what is the second of the Four Cardinal Rules of Gun Safety? "Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy." So, why would I want the muzzle pointed at me while I'm loading it if I don't have to?

Yes, I know that muzzle loaders only load through the muzzle but that doesn't mean that they are as safe as loading a single shot black powder cartridge though the chamber either. It's a matter of risk management. How much are you willing to accept and under what circumstances do you wish to accept it. Because there are numerous leverguns available with a side loading gate and those versions without one don't have any compelling feature or allure that would cause me to 'need' one, I'm perfectly satisfied with electing to restrict my centerfire firearms to ones that load with the muzzle pointed away from me. It's a choice.

So, why doesn't anyone make a 22lr with a side loading gate, you ask? Because the design of the 22 short, long and long rifle round can't withstand lateral loads that would be imparted when loading it through a conventional side loading without damaging the round.

You see, the 22 short, long and long rifle round round uses a 'heeled bullet' design which means that the bullet is the same diameter as the case, and has a narrower short "heel" portion that fits in the mouth of the case, holding the bullet lightly in place. Because the bullet is made of soft lead, this short heel is neither long enough or strong enough to resist the side loads of inserting it into a spring loaded magazine through a side loading gate without damaging the bullet seating.
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I just grabbed my Dad's old Winchester Model '06. Pulled the spring plunger thing halfway out of the magazine tube so the loading slot was clear. Then I laid it down on my bench, pointing it away from me as if I was going to load it, just like I always do. At no time was the gun pointing at me. It was pointing away from me. As I stated earlier, I do not hold the rifle vertical and drop rounds down the tube, I lay the rifle down on its back on the bench at a slight angle so the rounds will trickle down the tube. Not much different than I do with my 1860 Henry. As I stated earlier, with the Henry it is a bad idea to drop rounds directly down the magazine, I lay it on its back on the bench at a slight angle, pointed away from me. At no time is the rifle pointed at me. So I do not understand where you are coming from with thinking it is unsafe to load a tube rifle without a loading gate.

Regarding your comment about deforming a 22 rimfire round as it is pushed through a loading gate, I just tried. I had to shove down really hard on the round to get the bullet to bend. Much harder than would happen simply pushing a round into a loading gate. And yes, I do know what a heeled bullet is.
 
Since when did you have to point the muzzle of a tube loading gun at your face? Also, unless you have the gun locked and cocked on a tube gun I dont see where it would be that easy for it going off while loading. I own one of each and can find flaws in each.
 
I actually prefer the gate, but I'm very happy with my Henry .44 carbine. Around here, it's either the Marlin or the Henry. On the Marlins I've looked at, none of them seem to have the lsame evel of quality and build as the Henry.
 
I have my own gripe with Henry but I dont see an inherent safety issue with the tube feed guns. In fact, I would think one could load the tube guns faster.
 
why?

Why is it necessary to label the folks that have lost or damaged .22 tubes as "stupid" and "ignorant"? Especially when one has no idea of the circumstances.

The OP asked for comments and opinions on tube v. lever and why. My response was just that, to include some episodes that I have seen in person.

Done on this one.
 
The gate on my Rossi model 92 in .357 was hard on my finger - until I narrowed the spring a bit and rounded off a few corners in the gate area.

This made a major difference. The cowboy shooters gunsmiths know how to slick up a lever-gun... The gate being part of that process.

After some work, I could work the action on my 92 with my little finger. It's not going to get any more slick than that.
 
I had a tube feeder in 45-70, a great gun but I could not get passed that tube, it just did not seem right !! :mad:
 
Tube feed is ok

I went to a rifle range, removed the brass tube from my Henry 357, inserted 9 38 special rounds, started to push it in, loosened my grip for some reason and the tube sprung out onto the ground, was a little embarrassed. Oh well no one else saw as they were too busy shooting.
 
I went to a rifle range, removed the brass tube from my Henry 357, inserted 9 38 special rounds, started to push it in, loosened my grip for some reason and the tube sprung out onto the ground, was a little embarrassed. Oh well no one else saw as they were too busy shooting.
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OMG--that's almost as bad as dropping a cartridge on the ground--shame on you! ;)

I'll tell you about one I had similar to yours but better--I had a gate-feed model 92 style rifle and the magazine cap screw disengaged from the muzzle--and when I fired a round the entire tube mag parted company with the receiver and tried to catch up with the bullet, but only succeeded in spraying bullets, spring and follower on the ground at about 5 yds out.:D
 
In the field is different than at a bench. No, you don't have to point it directly at your face, but it's pointed in the general direction which isn't as safe as away from you.

I'm not saying that all of you who like the Henry are going to shoot yourself in the face. The OP asked which we preferred. I answered with my preference and my statement of why. You have another opinion, great.
 
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