Gaining some respect for 44-40

[Rachen]

If you load real fffG black powder in your 44-40, packed in and compressed with no filler wads,

I shoot .45 Long Colt a lot and load all of my own cartridges. My favorite hunting load is 42 grains of Olde Eynsford and a 200-grain Buffalo conical. Out of a standard 8" barrel New Model 1858, I have gotten 1300+ feet/sec. as a max reading. Average output is around 1250 feet/sec.

Now THAT is a lot of gun right there. That is more than .357 Mag performance if you are also counting the stopping power of that .45 caliber slug's massive cross-section. The above is my main load for dropping them big hogs and I seem to never have a problem taking down even the heavyweights. The recoil from the old warhorse is never as extreme as the .44 or .357 light frames but at these velocity and power levels, it definitely kicks and you do feel it pretty heavily. The combined CRACK of the bullet going supersonic and the regular roar of a martial-caliber black powder revolver firing has got to be one of the most satisfying things an old-fashioned and simple man like me can ever enjoy It is not a wrist-breaker, but if ye' ain't used to shooting big bore handguns, the recoil from a full-powered .45 LC black powder loading is stout and will give ya' a waking call.

Some fellas seem to think that old time cartridges were weak and underpowered probably because they base their knowledge off of those Cowboy Action loads that are sold commercially. Well, the one thing that makes 'em different is that these modern Cowboy loads are meant for competition only. Ain't gon' need too much power to ring up some steel. When yer' tryin' to live as close to the cowboy way as possible, now that's another story I use 42 grains for hunting and defense against bear/large predators. Same bullet but 38 grain loading is for carrying and home protection. They don't feel that much different and they are interchangeable for either purpose. For shooting paper I use about 18 grains with filler. Saves up on powder by a big margin and I still get to enjoy shooting the big cartridges.

 

[Hawg]

I love 44-40's but if you use hot smokeless loads in a rifle you have to keep them separate from loads used in a revolver. I paint the case heads of those red with a sharpie.

 

[105kw]

By the way, Colt marked their guns .44WCF until about 1900.
Same with .38-40, and .32-20.

 

[rclark]

Every once in awhile I think about acquiring a .44-40 Revolver, but the urge goes away as soon as I think about reloading it. I know it isn't hard, but it isn't a straight-walled case either. So I believe you would have to lube to resize just like the bottleneck rifle cases. This is something I don't do for .45 Colt or .44 Special.... So seems like 'more work' . But I suppose, bring out the .44-40 for the 'occasional' black powder shooting session, it wouldn't be to bad. So maybe I'll end up with one yet.

 

[Hawg]

Yes the cases have to be lubed and it is a learning experience but easy once you get everything set up right. The main issue is most dies still size to the old standard of .427 and modern 44-40's are .429. RCBS cowboy dies size to .429 or you can use a .44 mag expander plug.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I have been loading 44-40 with Black Powder for years.

No, there are no carbide dies available for 44-40, so yes, the cases need to be lubed. It is no big deal. I stand up all my cases in loading blocks that hold 50 rounds each. Then a quick spray with Hornady One Shot case lube. Not too much, or the liquid will cause dents when the cases are run through the sizing die. Just a quick spray, takes about five seconds per loading block. If a little bit of overspray gets into the cases I don't worry about it. I spray the cases before setting up my dies and shell plate in my Hornady Lock & Load AP. When I am ready to load, the lube is dry.

After all the rounds have been loaded I like to wipe off the excess lube from the cases while watching TV, but it is not absolutely necessary.

Been loading Black Powder 44-40 and 38-40 for revolvers for a long time. There is no setback as there was with the 22 Jet. The cases are not that steeply bottlenecked, and they do not bind up against the frame. Everything keeps rolling along nicely.

I always say 44-40 is a little bit 'fussy' to reload. Not difficult, but you have to go a little bit slower than with a more robust case such as 45 Colt. If you slam a 45 Colt into the bottom of a die, it will shrug off the blow. Do the same to a 44-40 and you will probably crumple it. I just take it a bit slower when loading 44-40.

The reason the 44-40 can crumple is the brass is extremely thin at the case mouth, only about .007 vs about .012 for a 45 Colt. That really thin brass is the reason 44-40 seals the chamber of a rifle so well. Almost no blowy by. With a revolver, soot is going to get everywhere from the barrel/cylinder gap anyway.

P.S. These days I load 44-40 with Starline brass. The brass is so close to final shape that I usually don't bother to lube the cases the first time I load them. They get barely resized and do not jam in the die. After the first time, yes, I lube them.

Here is a photo of a batch of 44-40 being loaded. These cases are brand-spanky new Starline cases, so I may not have bothered to lube them. But you get the idea.

 

[44 Dave]

Driftwood,
What bullet and lube are you using for your .44 WCFs?

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

I use the 44 caliber Big Lube 200 grain Mav-Dutchman bullet. This is one of the Big Lube series of bullets specifically designed with a huge Lube Groove for Black Powder. On the left in this photo is the Mav-Dutchman bullet, with and without lube, and a completed 44-40 round. On the right is the PRS 250 grain 45 caliber bullet, with and without lube, and a completed 45 Colt round.

When I used to cast them myself I used SPG for bullet lube, these days I buy them from Springfield Slim. He puts his own home made lube in them, but it seems very similar to SPG. I have Slim size all my Mav-Dutchman bullets to .428 so they will work in all my 44-40 rifles and revolvers, whose groove diameters vary from .427 to .429.

http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

 

[44 Dave]

Thank you Driftwood.
My Big Lube mold should arrive tomorrow and just picked up a Lyman Lube Sizer. Could not get enough lube in my Lee mold bullets. Have pan lubed, but that is less than fun.
Will still use Lee bullets and Alox for smokeless shooting.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Your experince with pan lubing was pretty much the same as mine. I was pan lubing regular hard cast bullets, but they did not carry enough lube to keep the bore of a rifle coated with soft lube for its entire length. So I was adding lube cookies and all that stuff. That is when I discovered Big Lube bullets. If you check out the J/P 45-200 bullet, I designed that one. At the time the only option for 45 Colt was the 250 grain PRS bullet.

Good Luck with that Lyman Lube Sizer.

I was using an RCBS lube sizer for a while. It works pretty much the same as the Lyman. It did not squeeze out enough lube to fill those big lube grooves, so I had to run each bullet through it twice. After the first shot I would raise up the bullet and rotate it about 45 degrees or so and shove it down again so the lube would fill up the voids left by the first shot.

The other thing I dd not like about the RCBS lubesizer was you have to raise the bullets up after lubing them. After casting hundreds of bullets I would spend a few hours lubing and sizing them all.

So I bought a Star lubesizer made by Magma. Yes, it is more expensive than the RCBS lubesizer, but it is more efficient. One shove through the die is enough to completely fill the huge lube groove of a Big Lube bullet. In addition, you don't raise the bullet up to remove it after it has been lubed. Each bullet pushes the previous one out the bottom of the die. As an old friend said, it just keeps pooping out lubed and sized bullets.

After I bought the Star lubesizer I was no longer spending hours lubesizing my bullets.

Here is a link to the Star lubesizer. I was not using the heater attachment, SPG lube is soft enough to flow at room temperature.

http://www.magmaengineering.com/magma-star-lube-sizer/

 

[Savvy_Jack]

Cowboy action shooting has brought back much interest in the 44-40 and even the 45 Colt as well as the other -cartridges...but along with it, many myths, lies and inaccuracies.

For cowboy action shooting using the 44-40, stick with Driftwood Johnson!!!

John Kort's 300 meter steel javlin hits using black powder 44-40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbxvlQUkQfU&t=7s

 

[Savvy_Jack]

Now that I have my notes...

44-40 Revolver
A while back I was able to get 40gr by weight of Swiss FFG into some RP brass with a .21" compression without any case distortion using RP brass. RP brass is thicker and less likely to expand with the compressed powder. I modified a bullet seating die to compress the powder. I used Dick Dasterdly's Big Lube bullet but the skirt is only a tad shorter than the 427098. According to my notes I achieved an average velocity of 960fps/409ft lbs of energy out of my 5.5" Uberti SA revolver....940fps with 38gr of Swiss FFG.

44-40 Rifle
Using a compressed load 40gr/weight of Swiss FFG and a Accurate mold 43-210B (Lyman 427098 replica with larger lube groove), I achieved 1,365fps out of my original 24" barreled 1989 Marlin manufactured in 1891.


45 Colt
Using 38.4gr of Goex FFFG and a Lyman 250gr 454190, I achieved 1,104fps/676ft lbs of energy out of my 5.5" barreled Uberti SA revolver. Using a lighter military type load....250gr Lyman 454190 and 36gr of Goex FFFG (some used less), I achieved 785fps/342ft lbs of energy.

By October 1873, Frankford Arsenal was manufacturing Benet-primed cased 45 Colt cartridges that were loaded with only 30gr of black powder with the 250gr bullet. This was due to 40gr being to much power for the early weak copper cases. By July of 1874, Frankford phased out the longer cases 45 and was solely manufacturing the shorter cased 230gr 45 Schofield cartridges used in both of the Armys 45 Colt and 45 Schofield revolvers with only 28gr of black powder. The cartridge boxes were not designated which was which but only listed the bullet type and amount of powder used. I have yet to make some replica loads but you can only imagine how much less they would be in power and energy.

Civilian world...45 Colt
I don't have any information on civilian offered cartridges at this early stage.

Thus until sometime after the 45 Colt cartridges used the improved brass center-fire cartridges, the 44WCF was actually more powerful than the 45 Colt. I have never loaded my 45 Colt revolvers with smokeless powders for a faster load than that I described by using black powder. Using smokeless powders, I have only achieved in the low 900fps velocity ranges.

44-40 Hot Loads
Using a 7.5" magnum frame SAA revolver with thicker walled cylinders...and using published hot "Group II" rifle loads from Lyman's 49th..., I have achieved over 1,200fps using hot 44-40 loads that should never ever be used in standard SAA or weak action rifles like the Winchester 73'.

Using a nice load of Reloder 7 and a 21gr Sierra JHC, I achieved 1,403fps in my Marlin 1894CB and grouped shots in a 4" circle at 100 yards. Also using a nice load of Reloder 7 and a 240gr SWC [1,373fps] and the Marlin, I grouped 20 shots in a 4" circle at 100 yards.

For cowboy action shooting, I used 38gr black powder or 6.4gr of Trailboss.

https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

I have never been concerned with trying to stuff 40 grains of powder into modern 44-40 or 45 Colt cases. I pour in as much powder as will be compressed about 1/16" - 1/8" when compressed by the bullet. That has always worked for me and been plenty to get the bullets to the target.

The actual amount of powder I put under a 200 grain bullet for 44-40 or a 250 grain bullet for 45 Colt is the same. 2.2CC. I arrived at that figure a long time ago using my set of Lee dippers, which are calibrated in Cubic Centimeters. Today I have the Lyman Black Powder measure on my Hornady Lock & Load AP set to deliver that amount. These days I am mostly using Schuetzen FFg powder, and 2.2CC weighs about 33.3 grains. Give or take a little.

The last time I chronographed my loads, which was a long time ago, my 44-40 loads were getting about 1015 fps out of a 24" Uberti replica of the Winchester Model 1873.

That same 33.3 grains of Schuetzen under a 250 grain bullet in 45 Colt was producing about 700 fps out of a 7 1/2" barreled Colt.

I did not get any 44-40 revolvers until much later, and have never chronographed my 44-40 loads out of one. I don't own any rifles chambered for 45 Colt and don't expect to.



Regarding the 30 grain loads in Frankford Arsenal 45 Colt cartridges, here is a box from my cartridge collection. You will see these are 30 grain loads. I have no idea what the granulation is because I am not going to take any of them apart.

The cartridge all the way on the right in this photo is one of my modern 45 Colt loads. The others are Benet primed, copper cased rounds from the box.

Here is my Hornady Lock & Load, with the Lyman Black Powder measure, ready to load a pile of 45s. I'm assuming they are 45s because one of the stations in the press is empty. (I took the photo a long time ago, and don't really remember.) When I load 44-40 or 38-40, all the stations are full. I don't usually crank out a whole lot of cartridges in one setting, it looks like I am ready to load six boxes in this photo. Anyway, these days I usually only load about four boxes (200 rounds), before I get bored and want to quit.

 

[rodwhaincamo]

Very cool I must say.

Thought thought once the government decided to reduce the loads from 35 grns they also went to the lighter 230 grn bullets as well. Not that I’m in the know or researched it but it’s what I’ve read. Surprised to see otherwise.

And it was based off of the 28-30 grn with a 230 grn bullet that later birthed the original .45 ACP load looking for similar performance (something like 860 fps).

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

By the way, Colt marked their guns .44WCF until about 1900.
Same with .38-40, and .32-20.

Howdy Again

There is not much finish left on this Bisley Colt that shipped in 1909, but you may be able to read the caliber marking. 38 W.C.F.

This one should be easier to read. It shipped in 1907.

 

[44caliberkid]

I still pan lube with my homemade lube of rendered beef tallow and bees wax. I take the whole cake out of the pan and push on the bullet tip with my thumb while supporting the cake from the back with my fingers. Heat from my hands softens the Lube a little and makes them pop right out. Then I run them through a Lee 428 sizer die. I have all the Big Lube molds for 38, 44, and 45. I can shoot a two day match, 150+ rounds, and never swab the barrel. Because the fouling stays so soft, each bullet scrapes off the fouling from the previous shot, so your barrel is never dirtier than from shooting one round. Soap and water clean up with 2 or 3 patches.

 

[Doug Lee]

Original 44-40 cartridges

Were the original 44-40 cartridges loaded with a heeled bullet like the .22 rim fire cartridges are now?

 

[4V50 Gary]

@44Dave - you mentioned the 44-40 case seals the breech and prevents blowback, keeping the firearm cleaner. How is this distinguished from any other metallic cartridge like the 45 Colt? I thought all metallic cartridges sealed the breech.

 

[Drm50]

I have no experience with 44/40 in handguns. I had a Marlin 44/40 that I loaded cast bullets with Unique. When I bought this gun a partial box of Win ammo was with it. I still
have a few left. Was in the Yellow box so it wasn't real old. Jacketed soft point. I shot a deer
with it at about 60yds and it kilt it. Other than that it was all plinking/ target and a few varmits. I never saw 44/40 as a Handi cap. I've loaded both 44/40 & 38/40 for years with
cast and Unique with no problems. Most used in Marlin or Win levers for fun shooting, I never was interested in hot rodding them. I had a few revolvers in 44/40 that were shootable but bores were so bad they wouldn't shoot accurately. In situations that a 44 mag
would suffice I don't feel under gunned with a 44/40 - speaking in terms of hunting with
a carbine or rifle.

 

[Hawg]

Were the original 44-40 cartridges loaded with a heeled bullet like the .22 rim fire cartridges are now?

Yes.

@44Dave - you mentioned the 44-40 case seals the breech and prevents blowback, keeping the firearm cleaner. How is this distinguished from any other metallic cartridge like the 45 Colt? I thought all metallic cartridges sealed the breech.

The 44-40 has a very thin case neck and is a slightly bottle necked cartridge. The thin case neck expands and together with the bottle neck they effectively seal the chamber. The .45 Colt is a thicker straight walled case and doesn't expand enough to completely seal the chamber. If you clean the bore of a 44-40 rifle with a fired case in the chamber you will get virtually no powder fouling in the action.