(GA) Rape suspect killed, maybe by 'vigilante'

Cypselus,

I respectfully disagree. I believe most responsible individuals want the justice system to work. The problem is, it frequently doesn't. Julius Grant's criminal history is an excellent example of this evident truth (and please remember, we probably aren't aware of the vast majority of the crimes he has actually committed). What are citizens -- not to mention loved ones and friends -- supposed to do when an innocent teenage girl is violated by a repeatedly convicted felon, particularly when the justice system has failed so miserably and so repeatedly? If you are searching for villains, I suggest you consider Grant and the justice system morons who allow a predator with his background to walk freely among us.
 
Generally speaking, I agree with Cypselus. If we live by one law, we have to live by them all, that's how the system works. Plato's teacher, Socrates, accepted the hemlock, which capital judgment had been decreed by law.

Our system of law dictates that it is not up to the individual to exact retribution -- that is why criminal cases are labelled "State/Commonwealth/etc v Defendant X." Crimes, as opposed to civil disputes, are offenses against society as a whole.

Obviously, in this case, the system failed the victim, her family, and by extension, us as the community. And if this crime had been committed against me or mine, the only thing I would've done differently is to do the job with my bare hands. But by admitting this, I must as a citizen who lives under the protection of law also accept that I have broken the law and should be held responsible for my actions by society, personified by 12 of my peers. I'd only hope that my community would be as singularly unobservant as the one in Atlanta, and which evidently recognises that certain work needs to be performed outside of the system.
 
"Good shoot."

Am I happy someone- even a violent predator like this one- is dead? No. I am deeply sorrowful that awful events such as rape transpire. In the end, though, we all die. If an early death means no more innocents harmed by this monster, so be it.

...And I was at work during the time of the shooting, with plenty of witnesses. :D
 
If somebody raped my girl friend, I wouldn't kill the perpetrator of
this crime. However, I'd go sure he never raped anybody else. Never
ever.
 
People:

I'm ALL for giving the "LAW" a chance to to its job and make sure that justice prevails.
In this case, the "law" failed. Justice was nor served.

Some brave citizen simply took it upon himself to insure that never again would that man rape another.

It is not an act that one can take lighty. But is it murder ?

Or is it justice. ?

Our system of justice is constantly being perverted by laywers that only care about winning their case and money...as a result ..justice is not being served. It's the judges and lawyers that scream the loudest when vigilante justice occures. You see, it cuts into their profit margin when good citizens act with courage and right wrongs that the laywers themselves helped perpetuate.

I think that when the judges fail to uphold the law , and when lawlessness becomes the rule rather than the exception,they ought shut the hell up, and get out of the way of the good people that would do the job correctly and permantley.

Maybe a little more vigilante action for violent offenders might not be a bad thing.
 
Actually, most of you assume you know what took place at the shooting, but no where is any account of this given.
All we actually know is that a violent and dangerous criminal, still at large, was found shot to death.
How do you know that the criminal did not attack yet another citizen?
How do you know that who ever shot the criminal did not try to apprend him?
Perhaps the citizen has good reason not to want to be involved with the police.
I, for one, would prefer that the police from this place have the common sense and good descretion to just let the matter drop, as is their right.
 
Just one of those "Oh, Well." cases.

First Cop, "Somebody shot Julius Grant dead."

Second Cop, "Oh well."

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
Forgive me for being uncomfortable with the notion that it's the prerogative of any man with a gun or a 20' piece of rope to determine whether "the system" has failed.

On utilitarian grounds, I'm concerned that under Judge Lynch the wrong people are far more likely to die than under a system where decisions about guilt and punishment are made after a careful examination of facts and law, and not on fleeting passions. Someone is bound to point out the failure of American criminal justice, and I have to concede that it often does not work that well. However, even with its flaws, a judge or disinterested jury are more likely to be able to calmly judge the facts than a vigilante hell-bent on revenge.

On legal grounds, and also philosophical ones, Grant had the same rights as everyone else. In the same way that the Constitution guarantees our rights to keep and bear arms, or to practice any religion we wish, it also guarantees a right to a fair trial and to commensurate punishment. You otherwise staunch defenders of the Constitution seem to have forgotten that.

I'm not defending Grant, though there is no proof, apparently, that he was guilty of the latest rape, even if it is a reasonable assumption. The fact that he had committed rapes in the past is irrelevant. If you wish to lobby your legislature to mandate death for rape, that is your right. Until then, the sentence isn't death, but a term of imprisonment.

For those of you who'd kill your sister's/wife's/girlfriend's rapists, why haven't you already? I'd bet my right arm that at least one of the respondents in this thread has just such a relationship with a rape victim. Perhaps she hasn't told you? I know I would have killed several people were I to follow that rule, and all to no end, I might add. If you want to stop rape, stop raising rapists.
 
You've got some good arguments there and they all sound pretty noble. The problem is , you could TALK about stuff like this forever.
The arguments are always the same though. They talk about the rights of perp and the wrong people being killed and justice not being served and people being judgemental and mob rule and the way society is heading and how terrible vigilante justice is ...and you know what ? It's a bunch of bunk.

I'll bet you ...that whoever killed the perp is not a bad person. Ill bet that they are not a threat to society , or you or me.

Ill bet he was just tired of fearing for himself ,his neighbors ,his neighborhood.He knew that the rapist was free to do as he wished whenever he wished wherver he wished. Chances are, the rapist has raped others that we dont even know about .

One thing is a fact..he'll never rape again.

[This message has been edited by Watchman (edited September 06, 2000).]
 
It's absolutely true that we could just talk about all this stuff forever, constructively or not, but this is one of my favorite online places to do just that.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BTR:
Thank God.[/quote]


..and a Charles Bronson wannabee!

Score one for the good guys ! :D

Lots more of this homemade call-to-arms in the days, weeks and years to come, IMO, folks.

Like Karen C. said: "Its' only just begun" ;)
 
Without getting into the rights and wrongs of vigilantism, one thing is certain....In THAT neighborhood, for at least a WHILE, whenever a rapist considers a rape, he will think of Julius, and perhaps alter his behavior. When I investigated sex crimes, a woman's 10 year old daughter was raped. She immediately walked across the apartment complex common, plunged a butcher knife into the rapist's heart when he came to the door. She rated a rather quick no bill. I'd say sometimes the system approves of it, right or wrong.

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Shamans emerge whenever certain needs remain unanswered...Mark Levy
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cypselus:
I'm not defending Grant, though there is no proof, apparently, that he was guilty of the latest rape, even if it is a reasonable assumption.

An eyewitness identification by the victim would be considered enough proof to indict him and, unless he provided a solid alibi, would have convicted him in almost any court of law. Methinks thou dost protest too much.


For those of you who'd kill your sister's/wife's/girlfriend's rapists, why haven't you already?[/quote]


Duhhh...maybe because my sister/wife/girlfriend HASN'T BEEN RAPED???




[This message has been edited by RikWriter (edited September 07, 2000).]
 
Would your opinion be different if you learned that the shooter has a long criminal record of his own? And that they were all gangsters who kill each other all the time? I think this is just another day in the hood.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MountainGun44:
Would your opinion be different if you learned that the shooter has a long criminal record of his own? And that they were all gangsters who kill each other all the time? I think this is just another day in the hood.[/quote]

My opinion wouldn't be one bit different: I would still be glad the rapist was dead. I would feel the same as if a Nazi sniper had killed Stalin in WW2---I wouldn't like the Nazis any better, but I would be glad Stalin was dead.
 
Well, as far as I'm concerned this POS got way better than he deserved.

You people that think that this was appalling obviously have never been around any of these type of scumbags, I have and believe me, who ever capped this POS did the world a big favor

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SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO KILL THEM
 
Staying with my neither pro nor con stance on this but adding: The folks who think this situation is a horrible or apalling or whatever are probably not really upset about this particular shooting, they are upset about the possibility the poster above mentioned....widespread use of vigilante justice. The more often it happens, and is is excused, the greater the chance that an innocent man is accused and punished. I have seen innocents arrested because of false reports to the police, and I have seen eyewitnesses wrongly identify people for a myriad of reasons. If the cops can make mistakes, anyone can. Wrongful accusation is the circumstance that people really fear. If everything in this story IS exactly as stated....Julius did it, it was a legitimate rape, etc., then nobody should feel really bad about this case ONLY. If someone does, it is only because they don't realize that some people are merely predators, cancers on the human race, and that we all benefit by their removal from society. No, I don't advocate this behavior, just stating a fact.

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Shamans emerge whenever certain needs remain unanswered...Mark Levy
 
Watchman, how is it a bunch of bunk? I guess I'm daft, because I didn't see an argument there. I think someone who decides to be a death squad is ipso facto a "bad" person.

Rikwriter:
Ooops, my reading comprehension is slipping.
Still not enough to justify murder, but more than hearsay.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cypselus:
Rikwriter:
Ooops, my reading comprehension is slipping.
Still not enough to justify murder, but more than hearsay. [/quote]

Guess it depends on your definition of "justify."
Legally, nothing would justify it except if the rapist was posing an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm to the person who shot him.
Morally and ethically...well, that would depend. I don't know what occurred between shooter and rapist prior to the shooting, who actually did it, etc, so I can't say whether the shooter was morally justified.
I am fairly certain, however, that I am morally justified in being satisfied that the guy is dead.
 
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