Future gun control - we've already lost

C

ctdonath

New member
Much is discussed of confiscation. We fight against registration. We buy extra guns now just in case we can't buy more later. We struggle to hold on to what we have. We are succumbing to a psychological effect common to fighting: tunnel vision.

A thought occurred to me: what about the long-term evolution of weapons? Firearms tech has changed significantly over the 20th century; what about the next steps and legal aspects? Observation: significant new developments will occur, but current and near-future law forbids citizens from benefitting from the next steps in weapons technology. The 2nd Amendment guarantees a balance of power between tyrants and criminals on one side, and citizens on the other; the gov't is already set to upend that balance, and criminals will merrily follow, while us law-abiding common folk are stuck with 1960's tech.

Weapons technology marches on, and the gov't has set up barriers that prevent commoners from using future developments. Yes, a Barrett '82 .50 cal will punch nice big holes. Yes, a well-placed .45 will do the job. So will a sword, mace or rock...but those have largely been abandoned in favor of more advanced tools which have distinct advantages. Future tools will have distinct advantages over the .45 and .50BMG; while the latter will continue to work quite well, new developments will upend the balance of power in favor of those permitted by law to own them - a group that does not include us, the common citizen. Yes, a highly-motivated group can use old tech effectively and triumph, but at a substantial cost that newer tech lessens.

5.7mm compact high-penetration rounds, programmable-distance-detonation 20mm rounds, tungsten ammo, and other really goofy & powerful stuff are coming on the market - but we're not allowed to shop. Laser-guided bullets and other sci-fi techs are being designed - believe that legal prohibitions will arrive first.

The "antis" are working on a long-term strategy. They know they can't take everything from us now. They know confiscation won't work. But by setting up fences to prevent us from entering technological areas that aren't developed and we don't want to enter yet - but we will want to - they have already cut off where we may go in the future. Your AR-15 will not be your preferred tool in 30 years...and what you will want is being prohibited now.

Some antis want civilians to give up their semi-autos and return to muskets. They know they can't do that now...but with forward thinking they can do that to the future. By setting up currently unopposed legal barriers now, in the future where an AR-15 is viewed the way we view a musket now, we will be stuck with "useless" AR-15s and groan that much earlier laws prevent owning something far superior.

Be content with your .45 or .50BMG if you like. Just recognize the particular advantage that the FN P90 has over anything you can own...and a web of laws prevent you from buying this next-generation subgun and anything that will follow it. You are stuck with current tech. The gov't isn't. That battle is over and our side didn't even notice it was starting.


[This message has been edited by ctdonath (edited May 19, 2000).]
 
I don't believe that we are going to be outgunned by small arms. A fifty year old M1 Garand is still a very effective weapon, as is an '03 Springfield, or a lever action Winchester.

The part that gets you comes from the fact that we can't have things like tanks, or attack helicopters, or stinger missles. Another big difference is things like grenade launchers and shoulder fired rockets.

As technology grows who knows what will happen. You have a point though, anything new under the sun will be too regulated for us to have. :(
 
I wonder what a future CNC combination lathe/milling-machine/dremel can be programmed to do in 20 minutes :)


Seriously, though, yes, we are scr**ed.

Battler.
 
Armed citizens couldn't defeat an organized army with small arms in a conventional war. You need artillery.

However, guerilla warfare can be accomplished by innovative means. History proves this so long as the guerilla soldiers are supported by a citizen movement.

Yet, do you really think that the U.S. armed forces will fireupon its own citizens?

The battle now being waged is in the information arena. An informed military and body of citizens is our best defense. Win the propaganda war. Truth is our best weapon. Educate the populace. Expose fraud and deceit in our government and its officials. That's the real war.

[This message has been edited by Stoic (edited May 19, 2000).]
 
Stoic, could be just as you say and maybe not. Don't we know who is our enemy? Isn't it those in elected office enacting unconstitutional legislation? Well, who are they? None other than democrats and republicans. We still have the vote and rather than talking about war why not talk about voting third party?
 
While I think that stuffing electronics into a grenade and/or grenade launcher is asking for a malfunction-plagued weapons system, I agree that there are major advances around the corner. Tungtsten-cored 4.7mm AP caseless bullpups with 4 digit cyclic rates, Gauss rifles with integral passive IR scopes. Of course, it's a far cry from bows & arrows versus Brown Besses, but not so far from Martini-Henrys and Lee-Enfields versus AK-74s.

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited May 19, 2000).]
 
Very insightful and absolutely correct, ct. But I'm not willing to concede it's over. I hold out for a Supreme Court case that states the truth - the 2nd protects small arms, regardless of technology, and YES, that includes 5.7mm, 20mm, and anything else you can think of, thereby striking down a plethora of unconstitutional laws in one fell swoop, putting our right back on the map. But IF this is not forthcoming, then you are exactly right on - we're doomed in the long run.
 
Take it another step - Phasers. (lasers, masers, whatever)

We won't be allowed to own these, and once the cops have phasers they certainly claim no one needs a gun.

That said, we still win. As stated previously, even a 100 year old Mauser will do the job. Once you shoot the JBT, you can go pick up his phaser.

Also keep in mind, civilians design and manufacturer this stuff. Civilians and ex-military will know countermeasures, and even where they can get their hands on the "good stuff".

PaulB
NRA, GOA, LEAA, MDCL, C.A.N.
Fight 4 Your Rights Homepage
 
Hey, last time I checked we can still die from being "poked" by any fast moving projectile.

So what if we don't have the latest wonder gear. Use what you have (i.e. that old deer rifle) to kill the enemy who has the wonder rifle. Arm yourself with it and smile, you've just something that 3rd world guerrila's do to the mighty American military juggernaut all the time!
 
Remember in WWII when they dropped liberator pistols for resistance fighters. They were perhaps the worst pistols ever created. No rifling, painful to shoot, slow to reload. But they were not made for combat. You used them to kill a german. then you take his rifle. You then used the rifle to kill someone with a machine gun. You gave the rifle to someone else and took the machine gun. Well THe smae thing applies even today.
 
You may be surprised at what you can find on the black market, If the military has it, we can get it. Look at all those Hell's Angels that they busted in Kalifornia a few years ago. They had LAW rockets and grenades just to name a few things. When revolution comes, the law will be incidental and getting things off the black market will no longer be a taboo.

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"what gives a government that arms the whole world the right to disarm it's own citizens?"
 
Remember Oleg's comments.

If you have inferior arms, you use them to pick off individuals with better arms.
 
Incidentally, as distance favors people with better arms and armor, one might not even need to have a firearm for a successful ambush. A stabbing tool at contact range is likely be more effective against armor than a concealable handgun and quieter, too. Principles of riflecraft apply very well to an HK G11 or an FN P90 even if the user learned on a .22 single shot. Future firearms tend to be less complex rather than more complex than older designs.

I have hope in eventual gains in this area. I only do not care for the probability of those gains depending on the ammo box more than on less drastic measures. Combat is messy.
 
Should the human excrement impact the air recirculation device, I'll have one of those newfangled weapons. Rather than buying it, I'll just get it the same way Afghans got AKs while using homemade Enfield rifles, or French Resistance members got MP-40s and MG-42s using single shot .45 Liberators.
 
Now if we could just get the CIA to provide us with Stinger missiles like they did for the Afghans, we'd be all set.
 
Pick a copy of June 2000 Scientific American Magazine. There's an article called The New Face of War. Determined, relatively untrained people are kickin' well trained, well equipped militaries all over the world. With what? Cheap semi autos. They can pick up an AK47 for $15 or a bag of maize. In South Africa the police wish the people hadn't been officially disarmed because the police are now the target because everyone knows they have firearms.

I would be more concerned about a ready supply of ammo. I really think we need to think about firearms that only need projectiles and operate on a multitude of readily available fuels. The black market is great, but when you're in the heat of battle and one component is missing, your in trouble. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see ammo manufacturers under the same kind of crap as the cigarette companies.

Battler, you are correct. However, inexpensive miniature CNC machines exist now. Anyone truly concerned may want to start aquiring the tools, know how and supplies now. All the plans for the good stuff are available now. I would start by building a library before the thought police make aquiring such information illegal.

Fight4yourrights is correct. Someone has to make the stuff. It's going to be private citizens. Also, there is nothing in the world that you can not aquire if you really really want to. Someone will always trade something for something.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Buzz - that was the plan but it didn't happen. Nice sounding mythology though.

Also, the guts of the French Resistance was the local Communists. Oops.

Lot of chest pounding here. Spend your time more productively at the political level making rational arguments for the RKBA.
 
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