Future for Ithaca Shotguns?

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Luxury items of high quality are doing just fine in this economy... High end trailer boats ($200,000) like center console boats with quad 300hp fuel suckers are still selling fine but I can go buy a brand new 18,000 boat...

As for guns I must clear an error that even made into a quote in another post...

MAVERICK by mossberg is AMERICAN MADE all guns by Mossberg labeled as "Mossberg International" are their imports and most of that is .22, OU and their 20 semi auto loader...

Brent
 
I can really warm up to a plastic and aluminum gun, not knowing if the metallurgy is right. The hollow stocks have that reassuring sound, knowing that the light gun in 12 gauge will kick like a mule. Do the guns rattle when shaken because of the sloppy fit? Sure they shoot but for how long under regular shooting, that is sporting clays or trap.

Many of the new makers use "dual action bars" they need those bars to keep the action from jaming, I think on some makes if the bars were not there parts would fall out of the action.

And of course all the newer guns function "just like" a Model 12 or Ithaca, sure and the check is in the mail-------.
 
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Shiloh Sharps are a niche gun. Not cheap for a 130 yr old design (actually a bit older than that, the model yr is 1874). These guns start around 2000.00 delivered.

Starts at.

Yet there is a waiting list. Lately it is been a 16 to 18 months wait from the time you ordered one, until it was delivered. I waited 16 months on my first one.

At one time there was a 4 yr wait.

There are enough people that will pay for quality and there usually are repeat customers.

What would sink Ithaca is an engineering fubar. They are a small company and that would be hard to recover from.

What is truly in Ithaca's favor is that they are privately owned. The owner has a commitment to building the best all American made pump shotgun and other products. He has deep enough pockets, that Ithaca could simply break even and he wouldn't be hurt financially. As long as they can hold their own, pay the employees and bills, put out a superior product and increase market penetration, he wins.

The owner is an "old money" businessman who actually lives where Ithaca is at. The employees are his town mates.

There is no "share holder equity", the bane of US manufacturing to take into account. There is only the customer to satisfy, not some pencil neck geek who says they should be making more money, so cheapen the product or we dump your shares off. (sorry for the words, but that is the truth).
 
Mavericks are ASSEMBLED here from parts from various places, including Mexico........
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I was under this impression as well.

As for Ithaca, I think the M37's are very well made and worth the extra money spent.
 
I'm sure the Ithaca's are well made guns. I've never owned one, but all I've seen have impressed me. I have doubts about how many will pay that price for a well made pump though. There are many, many, well made guns that used to be made that are no longer in production. I believe it is just a matter of time before Ithaca joins their ranks, again. The fact that they have been in and out of business multiple times, for about as long as I've been buyng guns does not give a lot of confidence.

If I buy a pump, I'm buying a gun to throw in the bottom of a muddy duck boat and use as a boat paddle if necessary. I want a gun that I can bring home at the end of the day, hose the mud off outside and let it dry in front of the fire at night and be ready to do it again the next day. If it gets lost on the bottom of a lake, I'll not shed a tear, just go out and buy another. If the finish gets worn off and metal rusted that is what they make Krylon for. I can buy 3 American made pumps for the same money that will do what I ask from them just as well as the Ithaca. If I'm spending that kind of money it won't be for a pump.

While they are great guns, I believe their time has come, and gone. Just like many other great guns no longer in production.
 
Expensive, But My Smithica Parkeruger Hatfox Remchester is Worth Every Turkish Penny!

Why is anyone sure the reincarnated Ithica is well made? 'cause they said so and demonstrated a few selling points -- really!? The fact that it's expensive means... it's expensive. Alot of people swear Remington 870's are good because of their two-century old name but they STINK these days.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go hire some unemployed shotgun machinists from Smith & Wesson, Hatfield, and/or Ruger, lease "Parker Bros." from an old widow, "A.H. Fox" from a Trust Fund, or "Winchester" from Olin Corp. to make and MARKET an old (read: obsolete) design, leveraging "Made in America," knowing there are enough collectors that I can at least break even in the short term...
 
Why is anyone sure the reincarnated Ithica is well made? 'cause they said so and demonstrated a few selling points -- really!? The fact that it's expensive means... it's expensive. Alot of people swear Remington 870's are good because of their two-century old name but they STINK these days.
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What's a good pump shotgun then? Mossberg?
 
Might want to check your cynicism gauge Matt, you might start running low.
But we know Remingtons stink, because you said so though, right?
 
Matt you need to start reading the gun news. Winchester is now owned by FN. Ruger stopped making their O/U because of quality problems, and S&W imported their doubles.

So far your running in empty. I don't think you could tell a quality gun from a factory second from Mossberg.
 
Why is anyone sure the reincarnated Ithica is well made? 'cause they said so and demonstrated a few selling points -- really!? The fact that it's expensive means... it's expensive. Alot of people swear Remington 870's are good because of their two-century old name but they STINK these days.
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I for one spent a lot of years working as a tool and die maker and working on high tech weapons systems during Reagan's military buildup to keep your sorry, well just say to help keep you safe from the communist threat at the time. I built satellite parts, built progressive dies to make electrical terminals, worked on the molds to make Spirograph toys, machine parts, cutting tools, lots and lots of stuff. Then I spent 28 yrs writing software, programming computers and building computers for people.

I understand grades of steel. I understand precision measuring instruments, I still have a box full of them. I understand the complexity of writing software to make the CNC machines do what is needed.

My background lets me know quality when I see it.

I was in the factory. There were no areas off bounds to us. The Ithaca people took us to each and every part of the factory. I recognized their procedures, they were surprised I knew what they were doing.

They are working towards building the best pump shotgun bar none, precision wise. Their procedures are geared towards precision precision precision, so the mistakes of the past won't be repeated.

One can argue about the design, after all, it is a very old design, that is not the point. The point is their execution of that design. If they decided to use the Mossberg 500 design, or the Rem 870 design and build it as a precision instrument, the end result would be the same.

There are still people left, some present company excluded, that still want to contribute to the local economy, to keep their fellow citizens working, that appreciate fine stuff and don't want to buy the absolute cheapest P.O.S. product that was made overseas SIMPLY to be cheaper.

There are extremely well made firearms made in Italy, Japan, Turkey, Czechoslovakia, that isn't the issue. Some products are just offshored to be cheaper, to get better return on stock holder equity. Etc.

There are people that have first hand, eyes on knowledge of what they are doing, instead of conjecture and speculation and downright ignorance of the present day Ithaca company.

You know the good thing about this ? No one is forcing you to buy one. So you don't have to, and your input on the subject really influences no one.

Really doesn't.
 
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Guess the shotgun crowd is no different then the rest of the firearms crowd when it comes to opinions. :D

Some swear by the old Colt .45 semi-auto and down any of the rest of the populace that buys/builds a .45 in another brand.

Some can't afford an old Colt .45 or just don't care for the design or have never shot one but their buddy ( whom, to them is the firearm guru of the decade and doesn't like them so they must be junk :rolleyes: ...and doesn't mind telling everyone his/her opinion) says they are junk so don't buy one.

Since we're throwing opinions around about todays 870's and the 500 Mossy...here's mine. I don't think either one is better then the other. Both companies are mass producing a product as cheaply as possible, stamping out parts(steel and plastic) and both turn out their share of lemons. Have cycled both brands new out of the box and the internal parts were so rough that they felt like they were full of sand. Take em apart and you'll see why. Clean em up...polish some rough edges and they smooth out nicely.

On the topic of whether Ithaca will stay in business? I hope so. Have always liked the feature's on the 37 as well as the factory smooth operation. Have done a little machining myself and have to agree with drcook as to the reason...better quality control and finished parts.
And yes, you pay for better quality/ workmanship.

Caution:

Don't get your tights in a wad...just another strokes opinion! ;)
 
I get the impression that they are doing fine with their core products. Here is a response I got from my inquiry about the release date on the Phoenix over/under,

"We have spent over two years in the design and prototyping the Phoenix Over/Under Model. The initial release was scheduled for first shipment in April 2013. With the demand for our core products since the first of the year, the decision was made to push back the release to the third or fourth quarter so as to fulfill the present back orders.

We have added both additional employees and machinery to achieve this date. The excitement both in the plant and in the field has us committed to reach these milestones.

Ithaca Gun Company thanks you for your patience in this matter.
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And yes, you pay for better quality/ workmanship.
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But that is the rub, don't ya see? Folks here on on a similar forum are more interested in cheap,almost throw away guns, from China, Philippines, etc - anywhere as long as it is cheap, regardless of the quality. That explains why Remington has cut corners to produce the Express line, why Stoegers, Baikals, and other crap is so prevalent
 
Cheap or inexpensive it does not matter, yes some people want a gun just so it go's bang when you pull the trigger.

And yet there are many people out in todays market willing to pay for higher quality shotguns.

Local to me is a small custom car place, the guy will build a replica of just about any classic car / race car made. He's not hurting for customers and he has had to move three times expanding his shop each time. So there ARE people with the disposalable income that want better guns weather they be O/U's or pump.
 
But arguing about it here is not going to determine if there are ENOUGH people who are willing to spend the money on an Ithaca pump to keep them going. Not just a good gun, but an Ithaca pump. Not addressing the quality one way or the other, I just do not like the Ithaca design, or the feel of them. I don't like the bottom loading BPS either, and I have owned and shot plenty them and they never bobbled once.
Like I said, time will tell.
 
Not addressing the quality one way or the other, I just do not like the Ithaca design, or the feel of them. I don't like the bottom loading BPS either, and I have owned and shot plenty them and they never bobbled once.
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This is one of the most honest reasons for not having an Ithaca 37 (of any age, old or new) and/or a Browning BPS.

AND this is OK !!!

I don't like over/unders. I think they look clunky.

I appreciate the art work of side by sides. There are some of the old time single shot shotguns that are also works of art.

But I don't have a desire to own one. They don't fit my needs.

We own 2 870 youth model 20ga's for my daughter, simply because I could buy an off the shelf gun with a 12 LOP and 18 to 21 in barrel. 1 is for general use, one was factory drilled and tapped for a scope and has a rifled barrel for deer. It can have the other barrel swapped on for turkey.

There is one downside to the new Ithaca 37's -vs- the old guns. That is weight. Due to different loads and regulations (steel, non-toxic shot) and some other factors, current day Ithacas are about 2 lbs heavier than their counterparts from the 40's up to the very early 60's.

My 16ga guns weigh right around 6lbs and a couple ounces, The new ones, all weigh over 8lbs (12,16 and 20, not sure what the 28 weighs).

This weight differential is largely due to the barrel. They have switched to using 4140 steel and making the barrels thicker.

I will say though, thicker barrels started long before the current iteration of Ithaca. I have barrels made at King Ferry and at the Ithaca plant in New York that are thicker than my guns from the late 40's into the mid 50's.

My old guns are a dream to carry and are lively and easy to track onto a rabbit scooting through the briar bushes.
 
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