Full size, compact, etc...for a first time buyer

If you like the Beretta then I would get a M9A1 or 3. I have shot many different full size guns and I find it superior. It just shoots very well and is more controllable under stress. I have a small of the back holster for mine, as it's the best way to conceal. I also have a Beretta Pico for deep concealment. I train with both during practice so I'm equally proficient. The full size is a good place to start and when you're good with this, then add something smaller. I agree it's better to keep everything in the same platform.
 
If you live near Dayton, OH give simtrainer a call.
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That's actually where I took the first shots class. They have a basic handgun class where you can try out a variety of guns, calibers, etc.

After that it moves onto classes that require you to train with your own gun, and focus increasingly on skills like low-light shooting, or confusing situations. I'd like to be taking these courses with a gun I'm likely to use in a variety of situations.

I suppose I will try out a variety of full-size pistols to get a feel for how they fit me and how much I like them. If I narrow it down to something I really like (be it Glock, Springfield, etc.) I could go back again and try the same gun in a couple sizes to see whether I really notice any difference.

Eventually I'm sure I'll end up with a couple of different things!

They charge $10 to rent a gun...seems I could practice with a .22 about 30 times for the prices I see for new .22's. :)
 
Stay with a 9mm...for ammo affordability ( over .40 or .45acp)...

I would suggest full size over compact ...weight helps reduce recoil, longer sight plane does make guns easier to shoot.

Picking a mfg or a model is about all the little things....what fits your hands the best ( can you reach all controls without shifting your grip), width, grip angle, how trigger feels as it breaks, resets - any slack, creep etc..do you want steel frame, alloy or poly...

Personally I find a lot of shooters struggle with double stack guns...width, etc....so at least consider some single stack guns ( 1911's, sig 239's, etc...)....

My first guns were full sized 1911's .... 5" barrels .../ ...but I also like the sig 226's / ... and I have buddies that like the XD's and their grip angle is close to a 1911..../ my primary carry guns are all full sized 1911's in 9mm these days 5" barrels because they are the weapon I shoot the best ( I use Wilson combat --- but colt, springfield, STI, CZ, and sig all make 1911's in 9mm these days too...

But it's your hands - not mine/ shoot or rent as many guns as you can before you buy...make notes on what you like on each...triggers, grip angle, etc.../ and have fun with the process !
 
A few thoughts:

1. Don't buy into the "full sized pistol is always better for home defense and range stuff" myth. If a smaller gun fits your hand better or balances better, you'll shoot it better. As someone said, the recoil of a 9mm is basically a non-factor. What matters is how it fits to you (length of pull and ergonomics). For example, I always shot my Glock 19 better than my 17. It just felt more balanced to me and I was more comfortable with it. Side note: I no longer shoot Glocks. There are more refined options out there. On that note...

2. Don't buy into the "Glocks are the only reliable pistol" myth. From what you read online, you'd think that Glocks are perfect and everything else is for losers. This is not true. In fact, Glocks are very reliable, but have very unique ergonomics that many people don't like, myself included. Gen 4 helped, but there are other guns that are just as reliable, or even (gasp) MORE reliable than a Glock, while having much more favorable ergos. Which ones? M&P series, CZ 75 and clones (P01, PCR, Walther P series, etc.

3. Don't buy into the "you should only shoot one kind of gun" myth. Shooting is all about muscle memory, which translates really well from gun to gun. It's like golf, a good golfer would play well with any clubs, because they have a good swing. Just work on your fundamentals, and you'll be able to shoot any gun. It's not that complicated. With that said, you'll probably find a gun that just seems to WORK best for you. I'm best with my CZ P01, but it's not because I sold my soul to that gun exclusively. I've owned like 20 pistols and shooting them all has made me the shooter I am today.

Ps. If you're looking into a 22lr pistol, I'd recommend the M&P. I've shot a lot of them and the M&P is the least picky regarding ammo selection. 22 pistols are infamous for being very particular with ammo.

Pps. I'd be remiss if I didn't make a specific suggestion. Before you choose your gun, at least hold a CZ P01. You get reliability (better than Glock, according to the NATO testing) with ergonomics that will blow your mind. It's a good size for shooting lots of rounds comfortably, and can be carried well. And it's WAY more accurate than any Glock I've owned. I'm also impressed with the M&P series, and the Walther P99 is a masterpiece.

PPPs. I'm not anti Glock, I'm just pro options. Glocks are great guns, but they're certainly not the only answer.
 
But the difference between G17 and G19 seems rather minimal
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In shooting, probably so. As a matter of fact, you will find some people, including yours truly, who like the feel of the G19 better. In my case, it is because the hump on the back strap is placed a little differently.

In concealment, more folks express satisfaction with the concealment of the G19 than the G17, and even more with the G26, but you will find fans of each even as a concealed carry pistol.

To weigh in on some of the other issues that have been brought up: I usually recommend a 9 mm as a first pistol because it is a more effective defensive round (with equal shot placement), and is still an inexpensive round for practice, and a .22LR for a second pistol for lots of cheap fun and practice. For the time that your first pistol is your only period, you are better defended with a 9 mm.

I understand the reasoning behind people saying that you should have pistols with the same manual of arms for practice and carry, but in my hands I have not found it to be much of a factor. I have several pistols that go to the range, and two that I carry, in different situations, and I can't say that I have ever picked any of my pistols up and experienced even a moment of confusion over which pistol it was or how it worked. I shoot once or twice a month, so maybe it would be worse if I shot once or twice a year, but I can't recommend shooting once or twice a year regardless. Practice enough so that whatever pistol you own is familiar enough that its operation is automatic and approaching intuitive.
 
Based on you wanting to train and put some rounds down range with the option of maybe carrying down the road I think something with a 4" barrel would be the sweet spot. If you want striker I would look at the Glock 19 or SIG P320C. If you want DA/SA I would look at the CZ P-07 or Beretta PX4C.

If you aren't sure I would just get a Glock 19. It's the standard. Easy to work on, reliable, parts everywhere, accessories galore. You can't go wrong there. Then don't focus on the gun and getting the next big thing. Focus on the training. The G19 will serve you well enough.

I chose the P-07 and couldn't be happier but I wanted DA/SA. Unless you have a reason not to, the G19 is as good a choice as any.
 
The first gun you buy will never be your last. When you decide you want to carry, get a gun that's suitable to carry.

For your first gun, get something fun and enjoyable to shoot, and you will likely want to shoot it more. Subcompact guns usually aren't very enjoyable to shoot, and many are kind of miserable to shoot. My son grew up shooting. I got him an LCP last Christmas. Sure, he shoots it, but it's not a gun that he would shoot all day. Didn't like to go to that range with it because after a half box of ammo, he was done. I later got him a 4" .38. Now he takes them both out. Shoots the LCP as is necessary, but shoots the .38 a lot more for pure enjoyment.

Get a full size that's enjoyable to shoot. Unless you have real issues with recoil, get a centerfire that you can FEEL shoot. 9mm is about the cheapest to keep ammo supplied. Learn good form and habits on it that you can take with you to a concealed carry gun later. Training requires follow up practice, and is not lost on a gun you won't carry. When you get your concealed carry gun, practice with it in the way you've been trained with your full size.
 
A 22lr pistol is great to learn the basics... And they are a blast to shoot and have fun with too.

I like to recommend them to new shooters, simply because I have seen it numerous times, where a person at the range is absolutely crap for aim, stance and grip using a standard center-fire like a 9mm... But I hand them a 22 and give them a few words of advice on grip and stance, and suddenly they are shooting reasonable groups. Heck, sometimes I just hand them a 22 and simply say "try this one" and they are shooting so much better.


But it is not necessary, and depending on the individual, they may start fine with a 9mm.

Any trigger time in which you focus on the fundamentals is good trigger time, no matter the platform. Once you have a solid foundation and understanding of the basics, then you can start to focus on the serious situation training. Drawing from a holster, controlled pairs, etc.

Remember, bullseye training is great for the fundamentals and drilling it into your head, but in a serious confrontation, speed tends to be a bigger factor, and decent aim comes next. Fundamentals help you keep your aim decently accurate under stress, but don't be surprised or alarmed when you start practicing defensive shooting and groups open up several inches.


While the nomenclature between manufacturers doesn't tell you much... In general, a Compact pistol is one that is smaller than the same model FS, but still offers a reasonable grip size for most people to get a full grip. A subcompact simply means that the version is smaller than the compact and usually offers a grip that drops the pinky.

But the comparisons are only good within the model family and not between other models or manufacturers. For that comparison, you need to go to physical dimensions.

A Compact is a reasonable compromise pistol, but it is just that... It's not great at any one thing, just good at many. That is why they are popular, is that they can be versatile.

I suggest a full size to learn on though, as they tend to fit best for most people. Get a Compact or sub compact for carry when you are ready. All the training from the FS will carry over, you will just have to get used to the smaller size.

I shoot many different pistols, and I don't find it a hindrance... Now I may never be as good/fast as someone who only ever trains with one pistol... I also have a more rounded skill set, that won't be a hindrance if I end up with a different pistol in my hand for whatever reason. I have seen many videos of guys who shoot only one pistol, get flustered when handed something new. Sloppy trigger work is the usual suspect. Hand them a DAO or otherwise heavy trigger pistol, if they are not used to such, and they can't hit the side of a barn.



As far as what brand to get... All the big recognizable names tend to make good pistols that will likely not have any issues and work well. They also have good support should you loose the proverbial lottery.

I personally really like the M&P pistols, they are really ergonomic, and find the compact (actually closer to a sub compact, as its only slightly bigger than a G26) to shoot very well for a smaller pistol.

I recently picked up an M&P pro (the standard version without a long slide or ability to mount a red dot... And I find it to be an excellent pistol.

I have another M&P full size, but I swapped the trigger for a target trigger, so I felt it was not the best choice to have for defense. Hence the purchase of the Pro

(I'm not a fan of stock M&P triggers, so that is why I changed it on my firstM&P, but the Pro model has a decent trigger out of the box... And the standard trigger has improved a bit since I bought my first M&P)

I respect Glock pistols, but I am not a fan of the ergos,

I have a VP9 that I find to be very pleasant to shoot, as it fits my hand so well. All the mix and match grip adjustment helps there. It has become a favorite for me.

My PPQ has a great trigger and is almost as ergonomic as the VP9.

I have a Sig 320, that is competent, but it doesn't light my fire... some people love them though. Great pistol, but it just doesn't speak to me like others.

I find my FNS to be a good pistol as well.

Find something you like and go with it.
 
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Thanks everyone for the helpful replies! I look forward to trying out some different models on a range. I visited a local gun store to look at several models and I think I see the point many have made here...as guns shrink, it becomes harder to fully grip them in the hand especially as the little finger loses its place to rest. Without a lot of experience, I can see how that could make it much harder to aim (or at least control the gun while firing) than a few tenths of an inch difference in barrel length. Some compacts seem to compensate for this by having the option of an extended magazine/grip, or some little "pinky rest" that angles down off the bottom of the magazine (or in one case, flips down optionally).

The salesman was a veteran retired police officer. Neat guy, knows his stuff!!! Great to hear from real experience and not just textbook theory.

On Monday I will have a chance to shoot a collection of models. I know I'll get my hands on Glock, S&W, Beretta, Springfield, and several others. Should be fun! I'll practice with the full size and see which models "speak to me," then probably later try their more compact brethren and see what works.

Thanks again for being helpful!!!
 
They have a radio show too. Every Saturday from 2-3 on 95.7. Those guys have a lot of knowledge. Would love to take a class down there sometime. But I don't make it to the south side too often.
 
Don't be too hung up on groups when trying the different pistols.

While there is something to be said about a gun working well for you from the get go, it could be a fluke, or caused by a happenstance of unskilled hands, that dynamic can change after some instruction on grip and stance... So that pistol may not shoot as well for you as you originally thought.


While most anyone can learn to adapt to a pistol... Finding one that fits well in your hand, is comfortable and easy to use really aids in learning and proper practice and... That is very important.

Aim, trigger control, stance... All that comes next, and will develop with training and practice.


Also don't fret over not being able to reach various controls, like the slide stop or mag release without the need to adjust your grip... Many people can not.

I have yet to find a pistol that I can activate the mag release with my thumb, without needing to adjust my grip first. (This is why I really like the paddle release on the VP9, or some other ambidextrous pistols, as I can hit it with my trigger finger with no difficulty)

Enjoy your day trying different pistols.
 
Listen to me. I've been doing this for 45 years. Get a Gen. 3 or Gen. 4 Glock 19. Either is fine. It's the ideal handgun. It's accurate. It's easy to shoot. It's extremely reliable with defense ammo. It functions as a range gun, self defense gun and concealed carry gun. With minimal care, they DO NOT rust. I legally carry a Gen. 3 Glock 23 24-7 except when in areas where it's not lawful to do so. The 23 is the .40 version of the 9mm. The 19 conceals like a dream and gives you 16 rounds with a Glock 19 mag or 18 rounds topped off with a Glock 17 mag that is also an option.
 
I'll be taking a class today that includes the use of several models. I know my list will include:

Glock 19
M&P9
PX4 Storm
XD Mod.2
Sig P320
Ruger SR9

That should give me a good idea for what feels good to me. I may have one jump out at me. If I really like the DA/SA action better, I'll have to go back and compare Beretta against other manufacturers.
 
I'm gonna agree with wizzamen. The only thing I will add is that with many guns you can get a .22 conversion kit that will let you shoot .22rf in the same gun. This is really useful as it allows you to train with the same gun.

So I'd say a Glock 19 police trade-in for about $350 with a .22lr conversion kit for another $200 and you are all set for Home Defense and training. Later if you decide to get a compact Glock for carry the transition is easy as the Glock is almost the same exact size, just a shorter barrel.
 
OhioGuy, the list of pistols available at your upcoming class is pretty nice, and it will give you a good taste of what's out there, and your mind might be a lot clearer after taking the class.

I differ just a little bit from this . . .
as guns shrink, it becomes harder to fully grip them in the hand especially as the little finger loses its place to rest.
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. . . because in the case of pistols that otherwise fit your hand well (a G26 is a good example for me), gripping them with the pinky curled at the bottom of the grip can give you a very secure grip to shoot well. I don't use any extension on my G26 and it shoots as well for me as most of the larger pistols in my stable. With the more diminutive Sig P238, the overall grip size is smaller, and a magazine extension improves my accuracy. It's an individual thing between shooter and pistol.
 
OhioGuy said:
I'll be taking a class today that includes the use of several models. I know my list will include:

Glock 19
M&P9
PX4 Storm
XD Mod.2
Sig P320
Ruger SR9

That should give me a good idea for what feels good to me. I may have one jump out at me. If I really like the DA/SA action better, I'll have to go back and compare Beretta against other manufacturers.
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I'm going to agree with TailGator. That's a pretty good list. My only concern is that it has 5 striker-fired pistols and 1 hammer-fired. At some point, you should probably try out some other hammer-fired pistols, even if only to give you a broader background in which to compare other pistols.

With that said, please let us know how the class went, as well as what you liked and disliked.
 
So the class was fantastic! I learned a lot from the instructor--in fact I plan to practice a bit and then do some more personalized instruction soon, just to make sure I'm building some good habits from the start.

I got to try all sorts of pistols. I think the list included:
Glock 19
M&P 9c
M&P 9 shield (single-stack)
Springfield XD Mod.2 3" and 4" models
Springfield XDS 3.3" (single stack)
Ruger SR9 and SR9c

He suggested I do a separate class on hammer-fired pistols if I really want to see the differences, but we stayed with with just striker-fired for the class yesterday. I learned quite a bit. I found that (and granted, this is the voice of total inexperience talking) the different lengths of guns in the same family (like the Ruger and Springfield) made very little difference to me, and I don't think I really felt any more recoil or snap on the shorter barrels. Accuracy is a non-issue because I can't shoot straight yet anyway :) If anything those more compact models just simply fit my hands better.

I found that I could shoot the compact guns pretty comfortably with or without the magazine extensions. Whether my pinky finger was resting on the grip or curled under it, I seemed to have a very good hold of the gun and good control. The optional "pinky extenders" pretty much solve the issue entirely for me.

The only ones in the bunch I disliked were the Rugers. I can't really say why--they just didn't do it for me. They seemed jumpier, and had all kinds of stuff going on--thumb safety buttons (tiny), big "Loaded When Up" bars on top, huge logos emblazoned on the slides. At any rate I had no desire to shoot them again.

The single stack guns weren't very easy for me to grip, although I'm sure practice would fix anything, and both were surprisingly soft to shoot and didn't flip around as much as I thought they would. The little Shield really impressed me.

So really, I'd rate it as an almost dead-even tie between Glock, S&W and Springfield, with the Springfield (especially the sub-compact) being the gun I most enjoyed and came back to overall. That and the S&W seemed to feel more natural to me than the Glock. I liked the S&W trigger the least. I like the simplicity of the Glock design the best.

I think I've learned that I like the smaller pistols a bit better, somewhere in that 3-3.5" range but double stack. I will spend some time comparing what may be a list of "finalists" now that I will guess includes:

Glock 26
M&P9c (maybe...that hinged trigger was a little weird)
XD Mod.2

I know there are others--sig, Walther--I could probably shoot for all eternity and not run out of options :)

Just based on yesterday, if someone said I had to buy a gun without further thought, I'd get the Springfield. It just worked. But I don't think I'd have any qualms about owning and relying upon any of the ones I tried (short of the Ruger which just didn't click with me).

Should be fun!
 
OhioGuy said:
So the class was fantastic! I learned a lot from the instructor--in fact I plan to practice a bit and then do some more personalized instruction soon, just to make sure I'm building some good habits from the start.
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Excellent! I'm glad to hear that.

OhioGuy said:
I got to try all sorts of pistols. I think the list included:
Glock 19
M&P 9c
M&P 9 shield (single-stack)
Springfield XD Mod.2 3" and 4" models
Springfield XDS 3.3" (single stack)
Ruger SR9 and SR9c

. . . .

So really, I'd rate it as an almost dead-even tie between Glock, S&W and Springfield, with the Springfield (especially the sub-compact) being the gun I most enjoyed and came back to overall. That and the S&W seemed to feel more natural to me than the Glock. I liked the S&W trigger the least. I like the simplicity of the Glock design the best. . . . .
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I would call all three of those companies (Glock, S&W, and Springfield) "reputable manufacturers." While we all have our preferences (some folks hate the feel of Glocks, some hate the Springfield grip safety, etc.), you'd have a hard time going wrong with any of those companies. They make good pistols and all three are reputed to have excellent customer service.
 
If you have the opportunity to do so, I would try some hammer-fired, DA/SA pistols. Many feel they are a safer option if you do choose to carry concealed.

If you are inclined to go with a striker-fired pistol, I would try the SIG Sauer P320 if you have a chance to do so. Many feel it has a trigger action superior to that of S&W M&Ps and Glocks. The subcompact 9mm P320 has a 3.6" barrel length, and a double stack 12 rd flush-fit magazine capacity. The longer 15 round magazines for the compact P320 allow a full three finger grip and can be used with the subcompact P320. X-Grip makes magazine extenders for the P250/320.
 
My turn to reinforce Mr. McGee's post: You are looking at quality guns from reputable manufacturers, any of which should serve you well. There are others, too, of course; I rather like Berettas, for example.

Interesting that you added the Glock 26 to your list of possibilities. A grip that doesn't incorporate the pinky can, indeed work out, huh? It bugs the tar out of some people, and others fall right into it.

A factor in choosing between double stack and single stack pistols that doesn't get discussed a whole lot is that double stacks often feel better to folks during firing because the recoil force is spread over a wider area. It is an individual thing, though, so confirm it for yourself as much as you can before you write any checks.

Glad to hear that you enjoyed your class, and that you are going on with even more instruction. Sounds like your are proceeding well. Keep us posted.
 
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