Full size 380 auto

I've bought numerous Beretta 84s and 85s from CDI Sales off of GB. Two of the 84s were almost new. Pay attention to the pics. It is not difficult to pick up a great 84 for less than $350. The 84 is my absolute favorite pistol and they one I carry daily. If you buy a 84 or 84B, the slide is slightly thinner. I bought one with wood grips, then thinned the grips to half there normal thickness. I now have an 84 that is barely any thicker than a single stack 85, but holds 13 +1 rounds of .380. I love it!

IMG_1980_zps1w4ruabw.jpg


stippled the grips.

IMG_1974_zps6kqvpdwo.jpg


That's the 84 with thinned grips on the left and a stock 85 single stack on the right.
 
wow, I stand happily corrected. with the new Beretta 380s going for $700+, its great to see the older versions for literally half of that.
 
I have a CZ 83, very nice shooter in .380. Worth a look. I paid under $300, but that was a few years ago. Not on your list, but CZ makes very nice pistols.
 
Here is the new Pavona 380 as promised. 1st couple show it compared to an XD Mod2 4.0 while the next two try to show the glitter in the sun.
 
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How does the Pavona shoot, specifically in comparison to the XD9?

I've expressed concern on this forum about the felt recoil of the .380 Pavona, considering that it's blowback rather than locked-breech like the rest of the Pavona lineup, and many shooters seem to perceive blowback .380s like the Beretta 84 as having sharp recoil. However, I can't find a rental range that has a .380 Pavona, and I'm not going to personally buy one just to test it. :)

AFAIK you're the first person to actually show up here with one. :)
 
Keep a watch as I will post a range report just as soon as possible, probably this weekend as I want the wife to shoot it also. Also wish I had a Walther pk380 to compare it to.

Will try to include honest impressions from my wife.
 
kmw1954 said:
...wish I had a Walther pk380 to compare it to.
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Why—recoil?

I'm guessing this because the PK380 is perhaps the largest commonly-available poly-frame .380 that's locked-breech. I've shot one, and its soft felt recoil is truly remarkable IMHO. Unfortunately, this is one of only a small handful of things I like about the gun. :rolleyes: (You can find my other thoughts in about a half-dozed other threads.)
 
Why—recoil?

I'm guessing this because the PK380 is perhaps the largest commonly-available poly-frame .380 that's locked-breech. I've shot one, and its soft felt recoil is truly remarkable IMHO. Unfortunately, this is one of only a small handful of things I like about the gun.

Exactly. From reviews I've read and watched there are a number of things people do not like about the PK380.

And no the Beretta 84F is still on my must have list. It's just going to have to wait for awhile now.
 
It's a moot point now,,,

It's a moot point now,,,
But the term "full size 380" confuses me.

The Beretta Cheetah pistols are nowhere the same size as the Beretta 92,,,
In fact the Cheetah is barely a larger gun that a Bersa Thunder 380.

BersaBeretta.jpg


I guess if you are comparing the Cheetah to a Ruger LCP,,,
Then the term full size makes some sense.

I would like to see a comparison photo of the Cheetah against the Pavona that the OP purchased.

Aarond

.
 
From my search previously there are probably less than a dozen 380 pistols that have a barrel length greater than 3" and of those none are ever really mentioned these days as a carry gun because of their size and weight. So I guess I made that distinction of a "Full size" as opposed to a compact pocket pistol. Clearer?

When I picked this up the other day I had a Cheetah in my hand also and they are relatively the same size. The Pavona may be very slightly larger and the grip may be slightly longer.. Barrel length is the same in both guns.

So how much smaller is the Beretta than the XD 4.0?
 
Size comparison

From the manufacturer's spec pages:

Witness Pavona .380:

3.6" BBL, 7.3" OAL, 4.5"H, 1.4"W, 1.9 lbs*

Beretta 84FS:

3.8" BBL, 6.8" OAL, 4.8"H, 1.4"W, 1.5 lbs*

The Beretta is a smidge lighter* and shorter in OAL, but is slightly taller.

(*Disclaimer: it's not clear whether the Pavona's quoted weight is with the pistol loaded or unloaded; the Beretta weight is with the pistol unloaded, but it's not clear whether it includes the empty magazine.)
 
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kmw1954 said:
From my search previously there are probably less than a dozen 380 pistols that have a barrel length greater than 3"...
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I'll see your dozen and raise you some. ;)

EAA [Tanfoglio] Witness Pavona
Beretta 83, 84, 85, 86 (Does that count as four? :))
Beretta 1934
Beretta 70
Browning 1911/380
Walther PK380
Bersa Thunder .380 (numerous variants)
CZ 83
Walther PP (also clones made by Manurhin)
SIG P230, P232
Astra Constable, A60
Star S, SS
FN Browning Model 1922, 1971
Mauser HSc
Taurus PT58
FIE [Tanfoglio] Titan, Titan II, Super Titan II (Also sold as Excam Targa GT27)
Makarov commercial models (variously sold under IMEZ, Baikal, and Big Bear labels)
 
chris, of that list how many are still in production and how many can easily and readily be found and obtained?
Can't say I've ever seen a Beretta 1934, 70, any Astra's though I've heard of them. Same for the Star's an Llamas, Never seen a FN Browning 1922 or 1971 nor have I seen a Mauser.

So if half of these guns are that obscure and hard to find unless you are a collector then what's the point of even looking for them and then expecting to shoot them regularly?
 
kmw1954 said:
chris, of that list how many are still in production and how many can easily and readily be found and obtained?
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You didn't say anything about them being in production or easily obtained. ;)

Actually, most of the pistols I listed are common to only somewhat uncommon if you haunt gun shows and used-gun dealers that specialize in historic firearms. Yes, some have been discontinued for decades (the Astras, Stars, Browning 1922 and 1971, Mauser, Beretta 1934 and 70). OTOH some are reportedly still being made but were not being exported to the U.S. the last time I checked (SIG P232, CZ 83, Taurus PT58). IIRC Russian-made Makarovs can no longer be lawfully imported due to the Clinton-era Voluntary Restraint Agreement, but they're fairly plentiful on the used market.

Also, FWIW CDI Sales—the importer discussed earlier in the thread—had a whole slew of Euro-police-surplus Astra A60s and CZ 83s listed on GB a year or two ago, but the well seems to have subsequently run dry. :( The A60 got very positive reviews from some TFL regulars who bought them. It's somewhat of a high-cap Walther PP copy, with the addition of an external slide stop, similar in concept to the double-stack Bersa Thunder models.

Another model that I purposefully left off is the Zenith [Girsan] MC14, which is listed as currently available by the importer Zenith, but does not seem to actually be available in reality—possibly due to a lack of distribution. Interestingly, the pistol is reported to be a near-clone of the Beretta 84BB internally.
 
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So yes I'd been thru the discussions and searches for many of those pistols and that is why I just didn't want to go thru it again here.

Thing is I wasn't and I don't think many others would spend time looking for a firearm that just isn't available no matter what the reputation was. Unless maybe again a collector. I don't think anyone looking for a gun to shoot would spend a lot of time looking for an obscure gun. Most are I want to shot and I want to do it now.

I've run into a number of guns that fit this bill that I was looking for, many new and supposedly available until one actually starts looking for them.

Next, if you want a comparison. How about a comparison between the Pavona 380 and the Pavona 9mm. They are supposed to be the same frame but very different guns. How does the perceived recoil feel?
 
One more, unfortunately discontinued this year:

Witness Pavona .380:
3.6" BBL, 7.3" OAL, 4.5" H, 1.4" W, 30.4 oz., 13 rounds

SigSauer P250 .380:
3.6" BBL, 6.7" OAL, 4.7" H, 1.1" W, 18.4 oz., 12 rounds (subcompact grip module)
3.6" BBL, 6.7" OAL, 5.3" H, 1.4" W, 20.6 oz., 15 rounds (compact grip module)

The P250 is a locked-breech design with a real DAO trigger (long, 6-lb. pull).

Below is a size comparison of a Ruger LC9, S&W Shield, and Sig P250sc.
 

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kmw1954 said:
How about a comparison between the Pavona 380 and the Pavona 9mm. They are supposed to be the same frame but very different guns. How does the perceived recoil feel?
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This right here is the comparison I REALLY want to see. :)

In past Pavona threads, I've questioned the value of the blowback .380 model due to the availability of the locked-breech 9mm version that has near-identical size and weight specs, and a street price that's only slightly higher. If buying commercial ammo rather than rolling your own, I recall calculating that the pistols' price difference would be offset after buying 6-8 50-round boxes of ammo at average retail prices. :)

The only element of this comparison that I can contribute is that the .380 seems to have considerably higher slide operation force than the 9mm—as I would expect.
gc70 said:
One more, unfortunately discontinued this year: SIG P250
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:(
 
OK, Don't know where this is going.

The P250 was just looked at. Not a single 380acp listed on GunBroker, all other way over the $350.00 price budget.

Grand Power, couldn't find a single one or even a dealer here in Wisconsin. One in Illinois and it to was over $400.00
 
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