Full Auto Weapons?

The only reason I'm not out trying to get a class III right now to get hooked up with an automatic weapon right now is because there's so much darn work involved that I don't feel like dealing with to get a weapon that I don't need. I've met class III guys with full autos that have allowed me to fire their weapons before. Hell, you can go to Scottsdale Gun Club here in Arizona and pay about 30 Dollars to rent a full auto HK MP5. Is it the end all be all? Nah. In my experience, full auto is fun, but it isn't always practical. If I were going to buy one, it'd probably be the MP5 I mentioned. I like it, and I would only need an auto for room clearing. It just doesn't land enough rounds on target in full auto mode at longer distances for me, nor does any AR-15 or AK I've fired. I'd rather just fire a controlled pair semi auto. For me, choosing between a full auto weapon of any kind or a nice new bolt action or 1911 will always land me with one of the latter. Would I buy a select fire weapon if it were easier? I'm sure I would. But probably just one, since that's all I'd really need to get the occasional full auto hunger out of my system.

As for their legality, they should be 100% legal for citizens with no mental deficiency and a good knowledge of gun safety. After all, how many gun crimes have you seen commited with a long arm of any kind compared to handgun crimes?
 
I own three full autos (sub machine guns) and have them primarily because I can and because I ran accross three decent deals which are hard to find in the NFA world. I don't believe the whole collateral damage argument has much truth to it. Unless you've had some training, full auto is pretty useless in most peoples hands. I would be more concerned about someone who can shoot armed with a scoped bolt action or a good pump/semiauto shotgun then I would some gang banger with a Mac-10.

The imagined proliferation of "machine guns" and the damage they cause is due in large part to ignorance on the part of the press, the non-gun members of society and politicians. Everything evil looking is labled an "Assault rifle" or "machine gun" and the public just buys it. I'm not trying to minimize the impact of some nutcase with a semi-auto AR/AK or any other semi-auto rifle (from a 10/22 to a BAR) I'm simply saying that the weapon is not a machine gun nor an assault rifle. Call it what it is. It appears that the latest rampage in NC involved a bolt action hunting rifle if the photo in the paper was accurate. If thats the case, he killed 8 (?) people meaning he had to reload at least once depending on the mag capacity. I imagine that it's not hard to do when shooting sheep in an enviorment where no one can defend themselves and you have nothing to worry about until the cops show up. He could have walked in with a double barrel shotgun and a pocket full of buckshot and done the same thing (or worse).

The point is, he killed a bunch of people with a rifle that most people wouldn't bat an eye at and one that is commonly available

Most (if not all) persons who own NFA weapons have been checked up/down/backwards and forwards by the feds. If you're not squeeky clean, it's a no-go. I don't know the national stats but I'm pretty sure that not many LEGAL automatic weapons are used in crimes. There are enough hoops to jump through for NFA weapons without adding more. I'm not sure if the fellow that sugested a limit on purchases and increasing fees is a firearms owner or not but if so, he should realize the ignorance of that statement. He may be a shooter and when the Feds begin targeting HIS favorite firearms (be they BP, Western style guns, air rifles or whatever) maybe he'll realize that we're all in this together.

If the truth be told, I don't shoot my NFA guns that often as ammo is expensive when you go through it at 800 - 1000 rounds a minute.
 
Dr. J said:
I was talking about the subject of full auto guns and their legality and got to thinking about something. Should these guns be legal and if so why? They are legalish in most parts of the country, but not all, and last I checked the Bill of Rights wasn't regionally biased.
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Answering the original question, full auto guns are legal, as they should be, just not in all areas of the country. Many good reasons have been given already in this thread, as well as the thought that no "reason" should have to be given, also a very valid argument.

Disclaimer - I own no full auto or NFA weapons of any kind, though I fully support anyone's right to own these type weapons. It's not what floats my boat, but if someone else is interested, have at it and more power to ya. I do find this discussion interesting, so here's my thoughts:

The simple reason NFA items are restricted the way they are is because there never have been enough people interested in owning them to force the necessary changes in the law. It's about votes and numbers: a relatively small federal agency (and some state governments) have made rules that the vast majority of the population, even active shooters, care nothing about.

It's interesting to me to read the vast number of "the government is doing xxxx" or "the government is taking away our xxxxx" threads on TFL and other sites. The next time you read a "the government is taking away our guns" post, take a quick look in a mirror. That is who the statement refers to, not some evil, black helicopter flying bunch of Nazis. Mangling a quote from Honest Abe, it's government of the people, for the people, by the people. We are the people responsible for the laws being passed in this country, not some faceless entity called "government". Some laws are passed for the public good, others to benefit those who have learned how to work the system to their own benefit. We don't need full auto weapons to "level the playing field" with "the government" simply because we are the government, and it's time the American public remembered that fact. Don't like a local/state/federal law? No need for armed insurrection, our constitution provides ways for you to make a difference. Become active in politics, instead of buying thousands of rounds of ammunition because you are scared of a law being passed, spend that money drumming up local support for the laws you would rather see, or better yet, run for office yourself.

It's also a plain and simple fact that we need government. Our government and the good people who have come before us are the reason we are able to have these types of discussions. Like it our not, our society needs regulation of some kind, but it is up to us as citizens to determine what regulation we need and want.
 
When the government bans cars that do over 75mph or alcohol (again, God forbid!!!!) then the "NEED" argument will make sense to me.

Until then there's a list of things a mile long that kill more people than automatic weapons will (ie cigarrettes) and all new gun bans amount to nothing more than gun hating.

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all new gun bans amount to nothing more than gun hating.
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and current gun bans
 
I but you do know that not all cars are legal in the U.S. right? Some require modification to limit their power before they can be sold in this country (sounding familiar yet?) because the government has decided that we don't need to go that fast. "
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You right certain cars are not allowed on PUBLIC built roads But I have seen a 2000 HP drag car on a Private built track. So Maybe we should just make Full auto's illegal on public built Ranges :)
 
I don't see the need for a $600 titanium golf driver. I don't see the need for a 200mph race bike to ride to work on. I don't see the need to ride a bicycle on the roadway. I don't see the need to drive a 1 ton PU as a daily commuter (just kidding on that one:)) As long as I live in a free country and my choices do not harm or cause excess risk to the public at large, I should be allowed to make that choice. Full auto arms involved in a minuscule number of gun murders and an even smaller percentage murders overall. The tax stamp? I don't agree, but I can live with it. Pre '86? BS should be repealed. It's a matter of personal choice and personal responsibility. If someone causes harm with their golf drivers, 200mph bike, or 1 ton PU, they should punished and loose their privilege.
 
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last I checked the Bill of Rights wasn't regionally biased.
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It also is not incorporated. Search here or on google for more on that. Hopefully it will be soon.

I really wish we could at least get an exception for full auto 22lr. This is really all I could possibly afford to shoot anyways and I think it would be a good starting point to push back the rest.

Lets face it, a full auto MG42 clone in 22lr would be a hell of a lot of fun.
 
The biggest problem with Full Auto weapons is that they use too many bullets and we are presently in a bullet supply crisis. So, no one should own full auto weapons except for me.:D:D:D:D:D
 
I really wish we could at least get an exception for full auto 22lr
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That would be great!! Only problem is how to word it in a bill. If you say "fully automatic weapons firing projectiles of .220 inch in diameter or less are hereby legal for manufacture and importation to the United States" then what about guns like the HK MP7A1? It's not exactly a pop gun. Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely LOVE to own an MP7A1 and I think I legally have the right to be able to own one but I think a bill like this would run into a laundry load of problems.


GSUdasherofhopesanddreams:(eagle1089
 
My Grand Idea

Before I became acquainted with all of the full auto firearms laws that are on the books I was under the impression that a diufficult and somewhat expensive to obtain permit was required to own full auto weapons, but it was a one time deal and you were covered for life for every full auto weapon you bought.

Now looking back, this seems much better than the crap we have on the books currently.

My suggestion would be to introduce a bill that would revise the current laws and processes to this:

1.) In place of the tax stamp per weapon system now in place require a federal lifetime permit for anyone wishing to buy fully automatic weapons. This process (to get moderates and some libs to go with it) should include a thorough background check (more thorough than ones for regular guns) and the requirements for obtaining such a permit should be strict (i.e. no DUIs, MIPs, underage drinking, no misdemeanor assault, no animal abuse/cruelty, possibly more). Other possibilities to get more people on board with the bill is to have to have non friend or relative references such as a manager, psychologist, or teacher/professor.
2.) Repeal the Hughes ammendment to the '86 bill. Again, to get people on board there may have to be slight restrictions put on this, such as limited quantities imported or maybe a tarriff (not to exceed a certain amount of course).

Keep in mind that part 1 is a one time affair, after that (if you've got a clean record) you're set for life (barring commision of future felonies). Part 2 is intended to dramatically plummet the price of FA weapons so people who make less than six figures per year can actually have a chance at owning them. This process could also be applied to SBRs and SBSs and suppressors.
 
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