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Fuel Filters . . . Really.
- Thread starter Prof Young
- Start date
If the owner of the can was just out of frame, its perfectly legal for Hicock to shoot and film and do whatever with the can. Just like i can hand you one of my SBR’s to shoot.If it belongs to someone else, it doesn't belong to Hicock45, and I don't think it's legal for him to possess it.
ORRRRR Hickok has/is an FFL....
If it belongs to someone else, it doesn't belong to Hicock45, and I don't think it's legal for him to possess it.
There are different definitions relating to ownership and possession in English and in US law.
There are places that rent full auto guns, for use on their premises and under their (the owner's) supervision. This is legal. I imagine the same principle would apply to silencers.
You may be the guy physically holding it, and therefore "possessing" it under one set of definitions, but not be "possessing" it under another.
Being a standard FFL holder does not work for NFA items
this is true, but a Class III would...
My way of looking at it: I believe any inquiry I might make to get around a BATF regulation will likely get my name on a list.
I would not order or possess any SMG "parts kit",etc for the same reason.
From a pure risk management point of view,if I felt I needed a suppressor,the paperwork and $200 stamp is nothing compared to the penalties,legal fees and felony bust of getting caught with a non-lawful suppressor.
If you are going to do it,do it right. Then rest easy,and enjoy boldly shooting it.
I don't enjoy sneaking and looking over my shoulder.
Good reasons why I don't trespass or poach,either.
Most folks in jail figured they would get away with it.
I would not order or possess any SMG "parts kit",etc for the same reason.
From a pure risk management point of view,if I felt I needed a suppressor,the paperwork and $200 stamp is nothing compared to the penalties,legal fees and felony bust of getting caught with a non-lawful suppressor.
If you are going to do it,do it right. Then rest easy,and enjoy boldly shooting it.
I don't enjoy sneaking and looking over my shoulder.
Good reasons why I don't trespass or poach,either.
Most folks in jail figured they would get away with it.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
True. That said, in the case of suppressors I'm pretty certain that the rule is a person other than the owner can use/shoot it in the presence of the owner, but cannot possess it in the physical absence of the owner. In the example of Hickock45's video, Hickock45 would be legal if the owner was standing off camera, but not if the owner wasn't right there while the video was being made.44 AMP said:There are different definitions relating to ownership and possession in English and in US law.If it belongs to someone else, it doesn't belong to Hicock45, and I don't think it's legal for him to possess it.
There are places that rent full auto guns, for use on their premises and under their (the owner's) supervision. This is legal. I imagine the same principle would apply to silencers.
You may be the guy physically holding it, and therefore "possessing" it under one set of definitions, but not be "possessing" it under another.
Geezerbiker
New member
Would replacing internal parts of a silencer still fall under the category of it being a new unit and requiring a new serial number?
This is a question out of curiosity not an intent to try something illegal. I know some old silencers used rubber wipers to keep the sound down and would putting in new ones cause a legal problem. Likewise if some company made an oil filter silencer and the filter was internal so one would have to take it apart to replace the guts if the legal hassles would remain the same?
I suppose we can hope the laws about these change but they likely never will.
Tony
This is a question out of curiosity not an intent to try something illegal. I know some old silencers used rubber wipers to keep the sound down and would putting in new ones cause a legal problem. Likewise if some company made an oil filter silencer and the filter was internal so one would have to take it apart to replace the guts if the legal hassles would remain the same?
I suppose we can hope the laws about these change but they likely never will.
Tony
Yes, it would.
Anything beyond simple cleaning of a suppressor/silencer is not allowed by the owner and the owner can't have spare parts.
It used to be legal to replace end-wipes, but I believe the BATF has now disallowed that practice.
Replacing of suppressor parts must be done by the manufacturer. So to legally replace internal parts (or the filter in a fuel/oil filter silencer), you would have to ship it to the manufacturer and they would do the repair/replacement and return it to you. Your other option is to file a Form 1 (and pay the $200 tax) to repair the silencer yourself--the BATF considers that to be making a new one and that's why you pay the tax again.
Anything beyond simple cleaning of a suppressor/silencer is not allowed by the owner and the owner can't have spare parts.
It used to be legal to replace end-wipes, but I believe the BATF has now disallowed that practice.
Replacing of suppressor parts must be done by the manufacturer. So to legally replace internal parts (or the filter in a fuel/oil filter silencer), you would have to ship it to the manufacturer and they would do the repair/replacement and return it to you. Your other option is to file a Form 1 (and pay the $200 tax) to repair the silencer yourself--the BATF considers that to be making a new one and that's why you pay the tax again.
I believe many people have purchased those oil filter adapters, and went through the paperwork. The threaded unit itself has to be registered and taxed. Once you have done that, and installed it on the gun that it's registered to, they are perfectly legal to own.
It's the unit itself that requires the paperwork, and is considered to be the "silencer"..... Not the filter. Much like an AR-15 lower. You can buy all the oil filters you want to thread on to them after that. Just like you can buy a dozen different uppers for your AR without any paperwork. It's not required.
It's the unit itself that requires the paperwork, and is considered to be the "silencer"..... Not the filter. Much like an AR-15 lower. You can buy all the oil filters you want to thread on to them after that. Just like you can buy a dozen different uppers for your AR without any paperwork. It's not required.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I believe you are wrong on this. From the web site of one of the companies who make and sell these things:bill460 said:It's the unit itself that requires the paperwork, and is considered to be the "silencer"..... Not the filter. Much like an AR-15 lower. You can buy all the oil filters you want to thread on to them after that. Just like you can buy a dozen different uppers for your AR without any paperwork. It's not required.
https://cadizgunworks.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=79
The Econo Can Suppressor comes as a complete unit with the oil filter attached, serial numbered and registered with ATF/NFA.
...
If or when you need to change the filter out, the ATF/NFA rules says it needs to come back to the original manufacture, which Cadiz Gun Works is. The cost is $25.00. The complete Econo-Can Suppressor can be shipped directly to us, for gunsmithing, which would be replacement/rehab/repair of the oil filter, with the serial # remarked, and documented as being replaced/rehabbed/repaired. The completed Econo Can Suppressor can be sent back to you at your address on your NFA Tax Stamp Form. You do not need to go though a dealer for gunsmithing services. The life of the oil filter varies depending on caliber used and bullet type. (ex. AR15=300-500 rds)
This would be a federal felony under the BATF's current interpretation of the NFA as it applies to servicing silencers.You can buy all the oil filters you want to thread on to them after that.