FTE after 200 rds.: brand-new Sig M11 A1.

I

Ignition Override

New member
Have mostly been a rifle guy, who only 'carried' a .380 Russ. Makarov. The Sig was retail 'new in box' about four weeks ago.
Today the empty brass case was still seated in the chamber. Very First issue with this brand-new gun.

I was surprised at the glitch and never checked the empty brass case rim-threw it away.

All of the Sig's 9mm ammo has been budget-priced Federal white box.
Reading indicates that Some M11 A1s needed new extractor springs back in 2013-2014, installed by returning to Sig, or had issues with (Win.?) WWB mmo.

The extractor was first cleaned tonight with a toothbrush, then an oily brass brush and wiped with dry patches.

Would you Continue testing the gun with the same low-cost brand of Federal? Or try any other low-cost US ammo for approx. 300 rds.? I don't know how many More functional handgun rounds indicate a Reliable Sig, but my Makarovs have been 100% reliable.

For tng., a FTE (extract) really doesn't bother me, in case it is somewhat rare.
But I have no idea whether the preferred carry ammo (better JHP) brands are manufactured with better brass--possibly assuming that the brass Could be the culprit.
 
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With that FTE (extract at all, from the chamber) and a round on the mag unable to chamber, 'tap rack bang' didn't work. The mag had to come out.

Would you continue testing the gun with the same low-cost Federal ammo, or switch to a different US brand, also at fairly low prices?
 
SIG

As a SIG armorer and semi-auto transition/firearms Instructor for my agency from the revolver days, I have seen many, many thousands of rounds launched from SIG P228/229 pistols, both in .40 and 9mm. My observations are that the pistol is exceptionally reliable. I cannot speak to the civilian M11, but I would certainly think that the extractor spring, if up to standard, would not need replacement for 3000 rounds or more. There was a slight glitch with P229's in .40 cal when the .40 first hit the market in the 90's, but that may well have been a high pressure ammo problem as well. We blew a few extractors, usually the pin and spring went with them, replacement parts may have been configured a bit differently, but regardless, once fixed (2 different guns) I never saw the problem again.

A new pistol from any maker is susceptible to a few burps in the break-in period. One of the few repeated failures I saw was from a new pistol with about 1 days shooting (200 rds +/-) that had not been cleaned over night. A good field cleaning restored reliability that day, and the shooter cleaned nightly from that point forward, the gun ran fine the rest of the week.

Some things I will add or have noticed:
-the SIG P series are described by factory people as "wet" pistols, ie keep them lubed (and clean)
-there is a tendency for some folks to improperly load an auto pistol...dropping a loose round in the chamber then dropping the slide on top of that. That is hard on an extractor, and though I have never seen a SIG extractor fail because of that practice, I have seen one break in another make of pistol.
-the factory does not recommend it for the rank and file, but the extractor, extractor spring, and pin, are not that difficult to remove. Reinstalling is a bit of a trick until one gets the knack of it, but removal will allow complete cleaning of those parts. A gunked up spring/or sticky pin movement in the tunnel, can effect function. Minimally, I'd give the extractor, & pin and tunnel aft, a shot of penetrating oil

I'd think your pistol should run just fine with white box ammo, or about anything else, if clean and lubed.

If it persists, It's just me, but I'd find a reputable local source to install a new extractor, pin and spring, before I put my gun in the mail.
 
One FTExtract is something to watch. If you wish to test it further, I would do so and shooting more is good practice anyway. What ammo you wish to use is up to you.

An intermittent failure could become more frequent or never occur again. If you could clean out that long extractor channel with some kind of compressed air and spray-in cleaner, I'd do that also. Otherwise, if disassembling the extractor to clean, then you might as well have new springs with you to install. One or two more FTExtracts and I'd replace the extractor springs.

In fact, on my 2012 long extractor P226R, I took a chance and did replace the extractor springs. It was just easier for me to order new extractor springs and the relevant pins (and also the special half-round punch) to try. For my own education & experience, I also wanted to detail strip the slide.

Otherwise, If it didn't work, I'd have called SIG for a return as I really didn't know if there was a problem with the extractor springs, the channel cut for the extractor in the slide, or perhaps the extractor itself. For my P226R, the extractor springs cured my FTExtract problem. My FTExtracts became more frequent with a few brands of ammo.
 
Personally I’d run another 200 rds of the same ammo and see what happens. I’d want to confirm if the issue was with that ammo or if it was just a fluke. If it happened again I’d consider trying another brand of ammo, but I’d also consider calling SIG and see what they say.


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I have the same pistol, which I bought used but in LN condition. I have not had a problem with mine. Clean & oil the pistol as prescribed and run 3 or 4 boxes of Federal American Eagle 115 or 124 FMJ’s through it and if it chokes again, contact SIG or even a good local gunsmith who will have a vested interest in getting that gun to run properly for you.

The only SIG pistol I ever had a problem with was a P226 .40S&W and it took a few go-arounds with one of the best pistolsmiths I knew of back in PA to get that gun to run properly. I bought the gun used with some wear & tear on it, and it got a new extractor, some barrel throating and feedramp polishing done to it, and since then it shoots great with everything I load it with, and although I’m not a big .40S&W fan, I still have it.
 
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Thanks very much. I had never cleaned any extractor 'claw', even with a tooth or wire cleaning brush in Any gun, just a rub with a patch.

Last night, even though the M11's possibly dirty extractor-while in the slide-looked exactly like the .40 P229's extractor being held side-by-side, I scrubbed inside the claw with an oily toothbrush, then a brass wire brush, followed by wiping what I could reach with a dry patch.

Will start a log sheet for the quantity, type of ammo used, and randomly check a few case rims, even if the operation seems normal. Oil extractor pivot etc.
 
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Every Sig I've ever owned or shot was totally ammo blind, it shot anything I put into them. My 226, a well broken in ex NYPD US made gun, with no rail was just nasty inside when I bought it, and I shot it without doing a thing to it. It went through 200 rounds without issues, 50 of them hollow points. I was surprised when I cleaned it afterwards and found a tiny piece of brass under the extractor claw. It must have happened on the last shot. After I cleaned it, it went right back to chowing down on WWB and some of the nasty looking (Stained and corroded) Speer Lawman 115 gr stuff I had a lot of at one time. I thought it was all gone, but another box suddenly appeared in one of my ammo boxes. Looks like my dog peed on it.
 
While I was shooting my CCW re-qualify my previously perfect Sig P290RS decided to fail to extract 2 90mm WWB rounds in the 30 round course. As I was preoccupied I didn't inspect as I would have liked to. Time for more range time with WWB and my carry ammo to verify good or not.
 
100% reliability does not exist in the handgun world.

Too many variables.


If your pistol hasn't had a malfunction of any kind... You simply have not shot it enough.


Random malfunctions will happen, even an otherwise very well functioning and reliable pistol... Its when they happen regularly that it is a problem.

I would expect a modern pistol, of good make, to go several thousand rounds between random malfunctions. Ones not directly tied to ammo... IE Squibs, duds, etc... The military expect the same thing... That is why they test MRBF...


If you suspect the ammo, try another brand, shoot a couple hundred more rounds through it, and if there are no malfunctions, call it good.

If it is a defensive pistol, also put a couple boxes of your prefered HP load through it, and if after a couple hundred more rounds of fmj and 50rds of HP go through it without issue... Then put it into service.
 
marine6680, as for handgun issues, what is "regularly"?

Update on the new M11 A1:
After the perfect 280 rounds used yesterday, it was briefly cleaned last night, oily patch thru barrel etc. The only grease was the usual reddish Mobil One, and put Only on the rails.
The extractor claw's slot was rubbed with an oily toothbrush, then a tiny bit of oil on the wire brush rubbed into the tiny slot. Tried to wipe any excess around it with a dry patch.

Well, today... the first 50-rd. box of the same Remington caused 2 FTEs. Each of the two cases was still in the chamber, with the next round trying to chamber. I have the cases, and there are No cracks or cuts etc on the rims etc.

Total of 600 rds. so far. Maybe three FTEs are not bad :confused:, but some guys have gone through--they claim--1,000 rounds with a perfect operation, using any ammo.

As the new extractors and springs are reported to be much better than on the (bad) problem guns bought in 2013-2014, would a Sig technician advise to shoot maybe another 300 rds. of a single type of US-made brass ammo?
I might call them today.:)

Our private shooting club's manager is a retired police chief, and after shooting today, he remarked about the very sooty grease on his fingers when he rubbed the slide's rails.
But would that dirty gunk reduce the slide's recoil enough to cause an extractor hook to let loose of a few cases seated firmly in the chamber?
 
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Tunnelrat: my other Sig, the used P229 (.a .40) has also had the same amount of grease on the rails, and no FTE issues at all.

The same with this M11- I just wiped grease from the rails in case too much was there.
Does anybody test about 300 rds. with just CLP on the rails?

Before the 2 FTEs today, **what changed** is that I had already put a good bit of Extra oil on the entire barrel (but Not feed ramp, chamber, nor in the bore), having seen this recommended on a guy's very popular Youtube Channel.
He said that Sig suggests being able to see your "fingerprints" in the oil.
 
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Sounds like you're not cleaning at appropriate intervals. Expecting a new handgun to run for 280 rounds without a field strip and re-lube is asking for trouble.

And while there is legitimate ''break-in" time with any new gun, ...I believe you should be able to take ANY new defensive type of handgun out of the box, lube it, and expect it to operate as advertised. In this instance, I'd say you've pushed past the limits.

If your problem continues with regular cleaning, I'd call Sig's excellent customer service for help. [BTW: I clean mine after each range visit, though I've never run 200+ rounds through my guns without cleaning, and have never had an extraction problem with a Sig.]

Problems that occur to me, given that adequate cleaning has been accomplished are: rough chamber, burr on the extractor, over lubing with heavy grease (check the excellent sticky on the Sig forum site for lubing procedures by Bruce Gray), weak extractor spring, burr in the extractor slot, and lastly...ammunition problems. Sig's are famous for feeding most any ammunition that has a primer and powder...My M11A1 is that reliable...and right off hand, I can't remember ever having a FTE or FTF malfunction.

YMMV, Rod
 
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rodfac: Roger that. Will shoot less per session with more freq. cleaning, and less reddish Mobil One grease on the rails.

Called the Sig rep. today, who suggested that shooter technique can cause this, and I did lots of fairly rapid fire, maybe allowing too much muzzle rise (vs. aft movement) with somewhat tired wrists.

Did you fly the Bird Dog, Mixmaster, Bronco, or Sandy)?
 
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I don't own an M11, but I do own a few P226's and a P227 and my Dad has a P229.

We regularly run hundreds of rounds at the range without issues with any of them. I have run my SIG's through multiple Defensive Pistol courses where we burned through over 500 rounds in a day and never had any issue whatsoever.

You need to send it back to SIG and tell them to make it right. IMO of course.
 
Ignition....I was a Birddog [O-1E or L-19] USAF FAC...Vietnam's lll Corps and Cambodia, 1970. Do you have a similar backround?

I'm not familiar with Mobil One grease, as I use US military weapons grease myself. Here's the addy for that Sig lubrication string. Sig's are 'wet' guns...ie. run better when well lubed. Some grease is affected by temperature extremes, but I'd doubt the Mobile One, an automotive lube, would be suspect in that regard.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/908103701

Too, I'm doubtful about shooter technique as a source of trouble. A firm grip is necessary on any auto, but you don't need a 'death grip' to make 'em work. All that said, I think the gun is just in the break-in period and will improve with age. If I read right, you only had 3 malfunctions in 600 rounds...and all of it with that R-P ammunition...a pretty good run, all things considered. I don't buy R-P as a rule, like Federal American Eagle when I do buy factory loads, for it's brass mainly.

Good luck...the M11A1 is one tough, accurate auto...and a great carry/duty piece. Rod
 
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