Ft. Worth: Our Latest Tragedy

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L

Long Path

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Note first that bombs were found and were used, and wait for the inevitible accusations that the evil guns caused the rampage.

In Texas, as in many states (most? All?) it is against the law to carry in church even if you have a concealed handgun license. I would say that if there was a single CHL carrier in that sanctuary, they should sue the state with denying them of their ability to defend themself in that instant.

You're in a crowd in an enclosed area with limited exits, you're a member of a non-secular group and therefore are offensive to SOMEBODY who espouses hate and wants to make a dimented statement, and you can't defend yourself. At least the ATF is there to make everyone safe, now.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>09/15/99

By Jason Sickles / The Dallas Morning News


FORT WORTH - A gunman opened fire on children and adults gathered in the sanctuary of a Fort Worth church Wednesday, killing at least six people and then fatally shooting himself, police said.

The man entered from the back of Wedgwood Baptist Church in South Fort Worth, where people were gathered for a youth rally Wednesday night about 7 p.m. At least one bomb went off, sending people fleeing for cover, police said.

Eight people were injured and taken to hospitals, some of them in critical condition. Children and parents wept outside the church on Whitman Street. Parents were taken to a nearby elementary school.

Lt. David Ellis of the Fort Worth Police Department said officers were searching the church for more bombs. ATF officials were on the scene and had evacuated a two-block area around the church. He said bodies were inside and outside the sanctuary.

"Some of them look fairly young," Lt. Ellis said. "It is not secure of bombs yet. There's a lot of evidence scattered around the church. It does appear that they were fleeing. There are shoes in the hallway."

Lt. Ellis said evidence is throughout the church. The call came in from an off-duty officer who lives nearby and heard the gunshots.

"There's evidence in the balcony. There's shell casings and bodies everywhere. It's tragic. . . . It's obviously the worst scene that has ever happened in Fort Worth."

[/quote]

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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?
 
I saw this on ch8 just as you posted this, LP. I have heard them say there are as many as 7 dead, plus one gunman (he doesn't count as a "victim"). From what I saw, the police really haven't said much of anything as they are still searching the building for bombs and they are about to send in a robot to find them, due to the danger.

This happened mere hours ago, but the media are already there to dance in the blood. Nothing yet about what "evil guns" were used, other than it's a semi-auto handgun. You can bet it won't take long, though.

As to legality of carrying in church- it is no longer forbidden by the law- churches have to post proper signage like everyone else as of 1997.

I'll be up for awhile, yet, so I'll keep ya'll posted.

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"Is fhe'arr teicheadh math na droch fhuireach"
-Sarabian Oomodo

If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!

A firearm isn't a weapon until it is used as such.
 
Sh#t!! Not again!!

I'm no conspiracy-theorist, but how many times do we have to accept this sort of thing as a tragic "coincidence".

If it was written in a Hollywood script it couldn't have generated more pathos --- unarmed victims, children, in a church, shot with a handgun.

The only thing that will stop this being the straw that broke the camel's back will be if the hurricane overshadows it -- and if that sounds callous, it isn't meant to be, I assure you.

I'll bet the antis are nearly wetting themselves with glee over this one!!

BOHICA

B
 
He was described as a "shooter" over here, to smear the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia maybe ? Typical...

See ssaa.org.au.

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***Big Bunny***
 
As much as I HATE inuendo, I don't automatically assume that "shooter" or "gunman" are subtle attempts to smear me and you. It's just shorthand for "guy with a gun who shot...", and it's a form they let slide in journalism school. I don't expect them to use MY politically correct terms all the time. Just don't make me. I'm not trying to be derisive when I don't hyphenate every dagum sub-category of culture here; I'm saving time.

And that's about the only time you'll hear me say the media aren't as a group out to smear us... ;)
 
Yep, it just had to happen the same day as another shooting at a hospital in Kalifornia... I can already hear the gun-grabbers sharpening their axes. Me, I'm cleanin' my guns...

Seriously though, you DO have to wonder, as Bruce said, what's goin' on around here... sumpin' smells fishy. There's just too many of these things happening lately. Being so close to the event, I cringe to hear the fallout from this incident.... blah blah blah, ban owning of more than one magazine per gun (one witness claimed there were several mags lying about)blah blah blah.

Kinda funny(not), how, as I was watching the media interview the local Acting Police Chief, that one of the first questions asked was, "What kind of gun was used, what caliber was it??" TYPICAL.

ARGHHH! I'll shut up now, before I really go off on a tirade.

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"...What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?... Fight, and you may die, run and you'll live, at least a while. And dying, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for just one chance, to tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDOM!!!"
-------------------------
je suis prest



[This message has been edited by Darthmaum (edited September 16, 1999).]
 
LongPath:

Different ships, different cap tallies, as they say ....

Here, when the media use that terminology it is deliberate (as I've been told by an ex-journo)

It's always "gunman" (negative commotations); "shooter" (as RA says, to denigrate a term we use ourselves); "weapon" (never "firearm", a term we use); and the designation is always given; e.g. a "semi-automatic" handgun. Wherever possible, they are also to link it to past shootings, to refresh the readers' memory and attempt to build isolated incidents into a much larger "whole".

Cheers
B
 
And let us not forget the latest terms. Massacre (from Columbine, used again in Atlanta) and rampage (used for the Jewish community center in Calif.) By morning you will see reports on a 'Rampage at a Ft Worth church leads to a massacre of praying youth'. May not use rampage though since people died.
 
Not to be contentious, Jeff, but... so?

It's appropriate, and these guys are monsters. I don't have a problem with colorful descriptions of tragic deeds, per se. I DO have a problem with the inuendo that persists in re: "That these innocents should die because of guns and their keepers!"

It's understandable, I would say, that a reporter should feel some outrage at this stuff. The question is... how does it taint his writing?

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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?
 
Sarah runs and ad in a national paper. Next day, a Church and a Hospital get shot up. This stinks.

I do not think that HCI or VPC or any of the other pro murder orgs put people up to this. I do think that they have a pretty good idea that if they push somebody's hot button, they may get a reaction.

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CCW for Ohio action site.
http:/www.ofcc.net
 
It seems most journalists use what ever wording they can to sensationalize an event.
And on another note, what's up with journalists fixating on what type of weapon/caliber used in the shooting. They semingly just can't wait to use "military assault rifle", or "semi automatic assault pistol" in a story (so it would seem). I mean, I have a hard time believing that they really care what type of gun was used, except to report it to advance an anti gun agenda.


[This message has been edited by Phillip (edited September 16, 1999).]
 
Phillip: I've been curious-- weren't y'all?

Okay, just heard a live interview with the acting chief of police, who's bound to be a hell of a cop, because he sounds like a serious goober on the air. One 9mm, one .380. So much for "large caliber pistol." At least 10 magazines found in his pockets (they thought they might be bombs for a long time--- sent in a bomb robot to check.), and don't you think that's going to come back to haunt us!

The man came in, shot a mainenance guy, shot a woman on a bench, and stepped into the sanctary, where he ranted and began shooting randomly into the crowd of about 150. At one point, he lit the fuse of a pipe bomb that he threw across the room and which apparrently blew up with a fairly low yeild explosion. Meanwhile, the guy is pacing back and forth, cussing out Baptist religion, and shooting people, and reloading, and killing more, and reloading.

An off-duty cop in the neighborhood hears his dog barking, goes out to investigate, and hears the shots. He runs back in, gets a gun (?! Obvious question, here...!), his vest, a raid jacket (not a bad idea), and a radio, and clears the frequency and calls for help as he runs up to the church. There he's met by a responding patrol officer, and they enter the outer hallways of the church just as the guy dispatches himself with a head shot in the back pew of the church.

The cops and EMS seem to have been doing a pretty good job, so far.

If only...

They said that the people were hiding like sheep each time his slide locked back and he reloaded.

People, I want you all to think about that. Even if you die, would you rather the entry wound be in the front, or through the back of your head as you huddle?

Being armed is a state of mind, too.
 
We all agree that these incidents are used as an excuse for the anti-gunners to further their ultimate goal of disarming all citizens. We have all seen time and again the first response of Schumer, Feinstein, Klinton, Gore et al... It is never concern for the victims first, it is always a rant against guns and calls for more "gun control".
Unfortunately, we have become so defensive about these attacks that sometimes we fall into the same type of mentality. It is understandable that we all groan and say "Here we go again". We know these incidents will bring more of the same knee-jerk laws down on law-abiding citizens. I have the same reaction.
Let's not forget the victims and their families. Let's keep them in our thoughts and prayers. They are indeed innocent.
We can't do anything to stop the anti-gun ghouls from using these incidents to further their agenda. We can claim the moral high ground and not stoop to their level.
This is not intended to point fingers or anger anyone here, just something I've been observing and thinking about.
 
This morning ABC News reported that the Fort Worth incident was "caused by a semiautomatic handgun." Yeah, right: the gun caused it! :(

We can expect the politicians in Washington to cynically exploit the Fort Worth incident, as they have others. As my wife said: "A few more such incidents and you won't be allowed to keep your guns." She may be right, in which case we might as well be fish in a barrel when somebody else wants to commit suicide and take us with him. Our recent crop of mass murderers seems to have a cowardly and evil but sure instinct for zeroing in on a group of victims who are unarmed and helpless, and who therefore will not be able to disrupt their megalomanic program of slaughter and suicide.
 
It is a tragic event that those people were slain, especialy in a place of "deemed" sanctuary. Not even the coldest hearted criminal would stoop so low as to kill someone in a church, but I guess I'm wrong it just happened. The fallout that us gunowners are about to take is going to be unimaginable, but we must stand up for our rights. Don't be afraid to agrue back when the antis call for the abolition of handguns. Its time that we showed america that guns aren't to blame. Its easy to place blame on an object rather than place blame on another human being, we all do it in one way or another. Car accidents are prime examples, we always make an excuse that something happened to the car, but it reality it was our own negligence that caused the accident. It will be difficult to make the antis relize this but we make the effort. As to what type of "notorious" firearm was used I heard it was a large caliber semi-auto handgun, probaly a .45acp.
 
Gentlemen, I have been reading your posts and
I don't usually add my .02. However I feel we
as law abiding citizens and christians are
under attack by those with world order mentality(Hitler?). Not to take away from the
tradgedy of FW and others of recent months,
somehow I feel very deeply that this is the
work of HCI and fellow bed partners to further their cause to deprive us of something we all hold dear to our hearts. This is just putting a little more iceing on
the cake(lies). Once they have taken all of
our firearms away we all will be led away to
the slaughter. It happened in Germany, Kosovo, Kmer Rouge and probably other places
as well resist you die; follow and live(in fear and poorly).
I pray for the people of Fort Worth may God
heal, comfort the victims and their loved ones during this time of great need.

If I am out of line in what I have said some-
one please correct me. May God Bless.
 
Well, I've just heard on the news this morning that the Alleged attourney General says that America needs to take a long examination of itself ... yeah, and the first people to fail are her, her boss, and his boss...

THis incident was outrageous. Without anyone armed, it would not have stopped had he not decided that it was time for his own departure.

I'm sure you are all feeling the same frustration that I am this morning ... especially since teh Juvenile Crime bill is working its way through conference...

[This message has been edited by TR (edited September 16, 1999).]
 
Interesting that this happened in the 5th district when the Emerson case is getting down to the line. Maybe a little support for the prosocutions emotional brief?



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Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
Has anybody else noticed a pattern here?
ALL of these mass shootings are taking place in "gun-free" zones. Think about it:
Columbine & Heritage H.S.: School
Atlanta (& others: Office with a "no firearms" policy
Salt Lake City (?): Mormon Library
Texas: Church
???: Hospital

What's next? Almost all of the "safe" zones have been hit! The only other ones that I can think of is a courthouse (too many armed officers), alcohol-serving restaraunt, or sporting event.

Did I leave any out from the last year or so? Am I wrong? Thoughts, please!
 
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