Front Sight Training

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Desette

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Hey Everyone,

Noobie post here so hello to everyone on these forums and if I do anything non-par give me a heads up ASAP and I will fix it.

Has anyone had experience with the Front Sight Training Centre? Anyone done any of there courses?

I was looking at their "free-gun" program as I was looking to get an Springfield XD anyway and that is there free gun for the program.

Anyone have any comments or more perferably critizism?

their sites:

http://www.frontsight.com/

www.free-gun.com
 
They are a top notch facility with very good curriculum and instructors. 99.9% of the attending students rave about the skills that they gain, even in a 2 day class. I have recently heard that *some* of the "gun included" offers have been a tad slow on the "gun" part, due to unavailability since the election. I'd talk to someone on the phone line to verify what the current timeline is on weapon delivery.
 
Forget Frontsight and head over to Gunsite instead. It may be a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for.
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What's your personal experience at the Fronsight training center?

You made the criticism, how about telling us why.
 
What's your personal experience at the Fronsight training center?
You made the criticism, how about telling us why.
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What criticism is stated other than suggesting another training facility?

Found out milk wasn't the liquid ingredient in your Post Toasties this morning after eating?
 
What criticism is stated other than suggesting another training facility?
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OK, let's do it your way. If someone could manage but two days for training, would you recommend someone not go to Frontsight?

And, have you been to either facility? If so, perhaps you could be kind enough to share it with us.
 
OK, let's do it your way. If someone could manage two days for training, would Frontsight give you "what you pay for"?
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My way? Well, since you granted me that avenue, I'll be more than happy to dance. But first, my reply. NO. NOPE. NYET.

My hard earned money to be trained goes to instructors that don't have controversial baggage and usually has "been there, done that".

My experience isn't relevant to this thread. I could tell the OP that I've been to Thunder Ranch, Valhalla, GunSite thrice, FrontSite, Cumberland Tactics twice, Blackwater four times, and an intro edge course with Steve Tarani. But it wouldn't really carry weight. We all know that. I'm just a lowly member here. Tell you what. How about I refer to what Staff Alumni and the actual owner of this board, Rich Lucibella has stated instead? Members as I stated and the owner of this site will definitely draw more clarity to the subject at hand and the OP can take smaller risk in believing them than some little ole member like myself.

The link provided has quite a bit of cat-fighting, but is actually worth the headache to read to understand the entire context. So, without further adew(sp)...

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71919&highlight=Gunsite+Frontsite

Take notice in posts #10, 14, and most importantly, 26. If you read only one post in that thread, I'd HIGHLY recommend reading #26. After trying to explain over and over again my personal opinions/observations of instructors in this world to naysayers, I happened to run across this thread one day. Rich and George Hill basically sums up what I think.

Another note to take: Observe how that thread started, went downhill, and ended. I'd advise that this thread does NOT end the same way. It isn't a threat. It isn't pointing fingers. I'm not implying anyone here is trying to instigate a urinating contest. What I am stating is many people have pretty strong opinions, whether right or wrong, about where they think is the "best" training. Adding testosterone to the mix is like adding Avgas to a fire...nothing ends well.
 
Front Sight has a two-day and four-day defensive handgun training classes geared for the civilian that has no LEO background, military background or for any person that has not fired their gun in a long time. It teaches basic gun handling skills, clearing jams, malfunctions, loading, reloading and with its main purpose of drawing from a concealed carry. I did the four-day course in janaury and would highly recommend the course. Yes, there were alot of Leo's and both active and retired military present but I would understand if someone was more advanced in firearms and wouldn't want to attend this course. Students came from as far as Canada, Florida and alot from the east coast. As I have no experience with other schools available I can't compare them to the others. If I had the opportunity I would attend the various other training schools. However, I felt my time and money was well spent at Front Sight, Nevada. I am planning to go back some time. In fact, they do have alot of promotions available for membership and some do come with a gun package. Myself, i am looking for one the their newest challange lifetime membership promotions they recently came out with. If you would like to hear more drop me a pm and I will share some more experience with you.

Kerby
 
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My way? Well, since you granted me that avenue, I'll be more than happy to dance. But first, my reply. NO. NOPE. NYET.

My hard earned money to be trained goes to instructors that don't have controversial baggage and usually has "been there, done that".
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Well, there you have. The underlying volcano that finally erupted after some minor stimulation:D I appreciate the honest reply.:)

I too have heard about the controversial baggage and read a lengthy piece about it some time back.

My friend who attended the course was able to seperate the other stuff from the actual training and had good things to say about it---that's all. I believe he did the four day.

There's no question that Nate can be a little high on the self praise and promotion. If I was headed South to take a course (I live in N. Nv.), I think I'd be heading to Gunsite where there doesn't seem to be any issue with anything.:cool:
 
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Wow, a nine year old post referenced though everything hashed out in it has LONG been put to rest (both legally and morally). I still contend that you'd be very hard pressed to find anyone who has actually trained at FS that will give them a bad report (well, except for those three guys who collectively took 100's of courses, got taken for a long ride by their lawyer & got left holding an empty bag while he laughed his way to the bank, LOL).

Seriously though, I'd LOVE to go to any of the other schools so I could rave about their training too (nobody stays in business this long without doing *something* right, eh?). But, until I have the opportunity to attend their courses I have to resort to replies such as "I've heard a lot of good things about them", "I'd go if I could" and refrain from bashing out of pure ignorance (can't help but to occasionally bash in response to it though ;)

But anyway, more on topic: You get everything in the two day course that you get in the 4 day version- All the same lectures, drills and one-to-one training. The four day classes give you a little more repetition, evenings to dry practice between range times & time to soak it all up. Oh yeah, and a little more "fun" activities (360 degree shooting houses, etc).

Personally, I think that ALL of the schools have one MAJOR flaw- you spend a good deal of time standing in one spot shooting a target that doesn't move. If it's true that you will "fall back on your training" in a real life or death confrontation, I'm seeing a lot of people that may freeze up instead of diving for cover. From what I've heard, all of the schools do have more realistic practice drills, though most of the emphasis placed on them is verbal. After taking a 2 or 4 day class at FS, I highly recommend that you return for the Advanced Handgun Tactics curriculum. It that class, you WILL do a lot of shooting on the move, from inside of a vehicle and from behind various cover and concealment. Once you've done that, you'll realize why those things can't safely be taught to first time students. You have to learn to stand before you can hope to walk.
 
...everything hashed out in it has LONG been put to rest (both legally and morally).
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Not quite: www.frontsightlitigation.com

Some of what was referenced is still ongoing.

(No dog in this fight, please believe me. But in interests of accuracy -- the legal issue has not been "put to rest" in any substantive sense. And the initial settlement wasn't in Piazza's favor in any sense of the word.)

pax
 
I'm stuck here because I know a LOT about FS that isn't well known, and I'm under non-disclosure.

Flat out: DO NOT get involved in their real estate scams under any circumstances. And trust me, their entire financial structure is about as shaky as Bernie Madoff's little empire for similar reasons...paying big money up front for a "lifetime membership" is nuts. If you're going to pay for a big training package, multiple classes paid for up front in some kind of special deal, make sure you can blow through most of it FAST, literally as fast as class schedules allow. I would never pay for training that will take you more than a year to get and that's pushing it. They could vanish literally at any moment.

This is actually NOT a slam on the training itself - I'm talking about the underlying business financials.
 
Wow, a nine year old post referenced though everything hashed out in it has LONG been put to rest (both legally and morally).
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So, is there something wrong with referring to a 200 year old document to support one's case, too?

I still contend that you'd be very hard pressed to find anyone who has actually trained at FS that will give them a bad report (well, except for those three guys who collectively took 100's of courses, got taken for a long ride by their lawyer & got left holding an empty bag while he laughed his way to the bank, LOL).
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There's no contention from me about the actual training you receive at Frontsite. I personally think Gunsite should be the course to take first. Like I stated before, Rich Lucibella has stated reasons why to a 'T'. Also, since you were in the middle of that discussion, I don't think it's conducive to further explain to you what I think. I gave my input and provided a link to others that have a well earned reputation backed by solid credientials.

I think that about covers all I should state.
 
As a Front Sight lifetime member, I've received quite a few mailings giving the particulars of the lawsuit Kathy referenced, from the plaintiffs' counsel. I've also attended enough classes to more than account for what I paid for my membership. I can attend any class they have or develop in the future (subject to passing the prerequisites for advanced training) at no cost.

Nothing the plaintiffs' counsel ever sent me was sufficient to convince me to relinquish my membership. I have never experienced any of the non-gun-training related things I've heard people claim "some guy they know" experienced at Front Sight.

Their training is solid and consistent. Their instructors are excellent. I've seen people who never touched a gun before in their lives in entry-level classes alongside experienced shooters, sworn law enforcement officers, and active duty military. The novices learned quickly, had a great time, and by the end of the class scored very well on the final skills assessment.
 
As far as the training goes, the two classes I have been to out there were top notch. Very professionally done, lots to learn. Instructors were personable - not done in a boot camp type environment. I've taken the 4-day defensive handgun and the 2-day defensive shotgun classes. Bought a Challenge membership while I was there for that last class, but haven't been back yet (time is hard to come by).

Buying the training certificates is the way to go. First time students can use the gray certificates, available online (ebay, fscerts.com, etc) for 80-100. Returning student certs are around $400 - either way, MUCH cheaper than the $2000 the class gets for paying cash.
 
I have trained at FS several times, they sucked me in on the free SMG class that me and a buddy did on a lark and I have been back 3 times since. The atmosphere, training, ranges and instructors were great. I have not trained at any other schools so I have nothing to compare it too, but learned a lot and vastly improved my skills. I am aware of the ongoing legal troubles and would never buy into the home site membership, but for training I would recommend Front Sight whole heartedly. I took the one day SMG, 2 day defensive handgun, 2 day shotgun, and 4 day handgun course. I still have one training cert that I am going to use to take my wife when I get time. What ever Dr. Piazza's business troubles are, the man can shoot. I watched him do an Uzi demo and in the course of the demo the Uzi jammed, he transitioned to his handgun and shot the remaining targets. His speed and accuracy were impressive. I still to this day use the Front Sight targets because I like the way they are laid out, very simple and informative.
 
Buzz Kill said:
What ever Dr. Piazza's business troubles are, the man can shoot. I watched him do an Uzi demo and in the course of the demo the Uzi jammed, he transitioned to his handgun and shot the remaining targets. His speed and accuracy were impressive.
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"Any gun will do, if you will do." Catchy phrase. ;)
 
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