From The Halls Of Malibu To The Shores Of Kennedy

[Hkmp5sd]

So when we put our noses into their business we cannot wash our hands of the things that contributed to the problem in the first place.

Sounds like you are justifying terrorism in general and 9/11 specifically.

Bin Laden's gripe with the US was because of American troops in Saudi Arabia. Troops stationed there at the request of Saudi Arabia. Why? Because they were scared of Iraq invading their country and they lacked the means to defend it. Now that 9/11 cannot be undone, Bin Laden has to use Islam and the other generic anti-American rhetoric to keep his cause going (and his butt alive).

 

[Bruxley]

We told them how to live so they committed terrorist acts in Malaysia, Thailand, Britain, Spain, Russia, Sudan, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, etc. etc. etc.?

Nah.....they just feel that if you don't agree with them your fair game. And lacking the ability to form any influence they resort to violence.

Looks like they at least have defenders here. An entire political party has at least one of their interests in common.

 

[Redworm]

Do you REALLY think they give a rats butt how we think they outa live.
Better question--- Do you REALLY believe that is the reason they attacked us on 9/11?

I believe it contributed. There is no one singular reason for any action that any person commits anywhere on Earth. We as human beings do not have the ability to make singular decisions without any consideration to past events. To pretend that our actions in the middle east did not have an impact on the decisions of people to lay down their lives to commit such horrific acts then I will truly weep for a society represented by those that really do think they "hate freedom".

Redworm, I don't think you are right. In the last video tape, Bin Laden was clear as to why he was at war with us, and what it would take for the war to end. Plain and simple he said we had to convert to Islam for the war to end.

If we left the mid east, never returned, and never messed with any of them ever again, Al qaida would continue to attack us until we convert to Islam. Bin Laden said it himself.

Oh my god. I seriously feel like I'm beating my head against a wall here. This is actually worse than talking with liberals that say America's evil and the cause of all the world's ills.

The point, once again, is to take a look at our past actions and learn from our mistakes. We are not doing that. At all.

Anything in particular from the video you want to point out that can't be tied in some way with our actions in the middle east over half a century?

 

[Redworm]

Sounds like you are justifying terrorism in general and 9/11 specifically.

Check your ears, I think you heard wrong.

Bin Laden's gripe with the US was because of American troops in Saudi Arabia. Troops stationed there at the request of Saudi Arabia. Why? Because they were scared of Iraq invading their country and they lacked the means to defend it. Now that 9/11 cannot be undone, Bin Laden has to use Islam and the other generic anti-American rhetoric to keep his cause going (and his butt alive).

That was one gripe.

Hey, didn't we once give weapons to Iraq? Hm. Oh wait, they had to defend themselves against Iran.

Hey, didn't we once overthrow a government in Iran? Oh wait...


Is anyone paying attention? Bueller? Bueller?

 

[Redworm]

We told them how to live so they committed terrorist acts in Malaysia, Thailand, Britain, Spain, Russia, Sudan, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, etc. etc. etc.?

Nah.....they just feel that if you don't agree with them your fair game. And lacking the ability to form any influence they resort to violence.

Looks like they at least have defenders here. An entire political party has at least one of their interests in common.

Oy. And this is why gun ownes lose so much support from gun owners on the left and fence-sitters. Some of you sit here pretending that calling someone a terrorist supporter somehow strengthens your argument. You make yourselves feel better about the ridiculous things that we, as a country, have done to stir the pot by pretending that anything besides the mantra of "they hate us they're evil they're crazy they're stupid they're violent they're fanatics" is brainwashing trash used by the enemy to sow discontent. To make matters worse instead of using some critical thinking and looking at the situation logically you accuse those of us that are actually thinking outside of a very limited box are traitors and defending terrorist actions.

This is disturbing and disappointing.

 

[MosinM38]

My thinking.....Sure.. I dont think we should have invaded Iraq.... BUT.. We did..we are there. And I think we are doing a good job relatively... Even if we withdrew US troops from EVERY COUNTRY around the world (Including non-muslim countries) We would still be attacked by Al-qaida....

I think it is good to be fighting them there.. I think it will keep em a little more occupied. Myself.. I am mostly planning on joining the National Guard when I am 18. War or not....That shows what I think of the war.. Might not too..But I plan on it.

I look at it this way..... We were attacked without reason on 9/11..... That alone shows the enemy we are fighting. The rules of war are differant with them....Differant goals.etc.... You can't look at Iraq as another Vietnam, or another (Insert war)..... It is unique to itself.... (Although Chechneya is a close one).

 

[Bruxley]

I tell my CHILDREN that it's not what happens to you, it's how you RESPOND that determines if you will get satisfaction or not.

Responding to every grievance with a mass murder will not get you satisfaction, it will get you hunted. Works from individuals to nations to Islamic Fascists.

Would you feel it was justified to blow up a Mexican High rise because they are complicate to our immigration problem? A problem that is impacting nearly every aspect of our society. Or organizing car bombings in China because their trade practices are damaging our economy. Or sending Americans with bombs strapped to them to blow up as many Venezuelans as possible because their leader is working to influence our politics?

I would hope not.

Islamic Fascism is nothing more then feeling justified to kill anyone of any nation because they don't agree with you.

Can't be justified for you, me, or them.

 

[Redworm]

Of course I don't justify it.

When a detective explains the motive of a brutal homicide he's not justifying it, he's explaining WHY it happened so perhaps similar events can be prevented in the future.

I have not, am not, nor will I ever justify terrorist acts. I'm amazes that I have to spell that out.

 

[Bruxley]

Oh. So you were just outlining the grievances they have not justifying them. I think we misunderstood your post:

They did it because they have grievances with the US

Yes but you're forgetting WHY. Why do they have grievances with the US? Because we don't believe in the same god? No. Because we have freedom? No. Because we have capitalism? No. Because we have SUVs and football and apple pies and guns? No.

and every other nation that doesn't agree with them. They believe that if you don't agree with them you are fair game. They lack the ability to form any influence via civilized means so they resort to violence.
Sound about right?

That's not it either. It's not just that they disagree with us but that they disagree with us telling them how to live. We don't want them telling us how to live. I don't want to live like them. But they don't want to live like us. So when we put our noses into their business we cannot wash our hands of the things that contributed to the problem in the first place.

We also lose the argument that other nations have no business telling us how we should treat our own people.

[/QUOTE]

They do actually do this because they have grievances and lack the ability to form any influence via civilized means so they resort to violence.

You were simply outlining those grievances not justifying them right? The reasons weren't meant to come off as legitimate, only explaining a criminals motive.

I think I got ya now. It wasn't clear that you agreed that they had no justification. Sorry if I misinterpreted.

 

[Redworm]

Exactly. An analogy I think works is that if I walk across my neighbor's lawn and in the process kick his dog, he might get pissed off and shoot me. Is he justified for shooting me just because I stamped his grass and made Fido yelp? Of course not but I should still take note that kicking his dog probably had something to do with why he shot me.

There is no justification for anything they do. I just don't want it to happen again but our current course of action puts us in greater danger because it's the exact same course of action this nation has been taking in the middle east since the 1950s.