From the Fringe- Can the Secret Service Legally Seize Your Guns?

I've known more than my fair share of Secret Service agents over the years, people who HAVE protected the President, the First Family, and other members of the Government at the highest level.

I would have to say that the two you ran into, AFS, were simply loudmouth and posturing.

It's probably true that no Secret Service agent has ever been arrested while carrying out his duties, but I'd have to say that it's also true that VERY VERY few agents actually ever draw a gun or lay hands on anyone whom they believe to be an active, credible threat.

Most of the time when an agent lays hands on someone, it's because that person has been asked nicely to move to one side, and when they decline, they're 'helped'. Secret service agents are very masterful at moving someone who thinks that he or she can't be moved. I saw that happen when Ed Meese came to my college in the middle 1980s to deliver a policy speech on South Africa and aparthied.

A large cordon of the campus liberal wing decided that Meese wasn't going to speak, so they tried to block the entrance to the auditorium. A number of agents simply walked up to them and without as much as a raised hand used their own centers of gravity to move them out of the way.

A friend of mine called it the Parting of the Deadhead Sea.

So, I'd say that the reason no Secserv agent has ever been charge is because, by and large, they don't act like loose cannon trigger junkies.
 
As a young EOD officer I was assigned to VIP support for 9 months. The SS do about what they like.

When Bill Clinton returned to AR after winning his first term he was staying in the Govenor's Mansion in Little Rock. The Mansion is in an area of old stately homes.

The SS did not know about the opening day of gun deer season. Early one Saturday morning about a hundred people opened their doors and started loading deer rifles, shotguns and an assortment of other firearms, including one Maxum water cooled machine gun into their pick ups.

Needless to say the SS detail soiled their pants and had all kinds of fits until a Sleepy President Elect told them to cool it. "It's opening day of deer season." I don't think he ever stayed in the Mansion again.
 
A large cordon of the campus liberal wing decided that Meese wasn't going to speak, so they tried to block the entrance to the auditorium. A number of agents simply walked up to them and without as much as a raised hand used their own centers of gravity to move them out of the way.
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I'd say they were exceeding their authority in that example. The Secret Service is supposed to protect their principle, not act as crowd control.

Although it does fit the Meese profile.
 
No, I don't believe they were exceeding their authority, as they were blocking the Meese's (Moose's? Mice's?) path of travel.

Part of protecting the target is getting him into his intended location as quickly as possible, not letting him linger on the sidewalk while someone politely asks protestors to step aside and let him pass.

When he came out they were all dressed and pained up as "corpses of the innocent Nicaraguans killed by Contras." I didn't see any of them dressed up as Nicaraguans killed by the communists then in charge. Granted, there weren't that many...
 
That is another fine line. Why is his path of travel to a speaking engagement more important than their right to protest it? Honestly I don't know.
 
"Why is his path of travel to a speaking engagement more important than their right to protest it?"

Hum...

I never for a moment stopped to consider, by standing away from the door to conduct their protest, that the protestors were muzzled, stripped of their First Amendment rights, and somehow delivered into the hands of a repressive government.

I wanted to see Meese's speech. What gave those protestors the right to deny me MY First Amendment rights of peaceable assembly by blocking my access to the auditorium?

Why is their First Amendment right suddenly more important my First Amendment right?

Answer, it's not.

No right is absolute, and when your exercise of your rights begin to interfere with the free exercise of my rights, your rights can be legitimately restricted or narrowed.

A perfect example of this balancing act is the blocking of abortion clinics. Courts have consistently ruled that anti-abortion protestors do NOT have the right to block the entrance to a clinic, and that they can be restricted in how close they can come to the clinic entrance.

Please note that this will NOT become a debate about abortion, which is a topic that is not permitted at TFL. Any attempt to do so will result in the thread being shut down.
 
Itc444 said:
As a young EOD officer I was assigned to VIP support for 9 months. The SS do about what they like.

When Bill Clinton returned to AR after winning his first term he was staying in the Govenor's Mansion in Little Rock. The Mansion is in an area of old stately homes.

The SS did not know about the opening day of gun deer season. Early one Saturday morning about a hundred people opened their doors and started loading deer rifles, shotguns and an assortment of other firearms, including one Maxum water cooled machine gun into their pick ups.

Needless to say the SS detail soiled their pants and had all kinds of fits until a Sleepy President Elect told them to cool it. "It's opening day of deer season." I don't think he ever stayed in the Mansion again.
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That's hilarious, and if true, makes me respect Clinton a whole lot more.
 
In reply to Strangelove and the other comenter on the Machine Gun.

It is Arkansas.

I personnaly know the guy with the Machine gun. He was sober when he told the story.

I confirmed the story with two ADPS troopers. One of the troopers was on the security detail at the time. I admit that they were unaware of the Machine Gun.

Under Bill Clinton a woman in Chicago was arrested and held for two days for displaying a sign "Clinton Sucks". No action was ever taken against the SS for their actions.
 
correct me if I'm wrong... but as far as I can tell, the president can not be arrested by anyone or any law enforcement organization while in office... the only folks who can do anything to him is the congress after he or she is impeached. Seems like that is in the constitution somewhere.
 
The President can be arrested by your local town cop or any other law enforcement officer in his jurisdiction. The issue is prosecution.

Of course Barney would have a heck of a time getting past the praetorian guard to arrest him.
 
Maybe Barney could... but I don't think he or she can be charged or prosecuted at least until they are out of office.
 
"the president can not be arrested by anyone or any law enforcement organization while in office"

That is, as I understand it, incorrect.

The nature of the crime would have to come into consideration but, during the Clinton mess, I believe that the Supreme Court ruled that the president, by virtue of his office, is not exempt from the law. I think that ruling applied specifically to whether or not he could be forced to testify in front of a Grand Jury in a civil proceeding (he had to testify), but I think the ruling would have broader application.

There are claims of presidential immunity that have been made over the years on different matters, but the Constitution says nothing about a president being immune from prosecution in a blanket fashion. It has long been held, though, that the President enjoys a great deal of immunity for actions taken in the discharge of his duties.

But, there's not a lot of consensus among legal professionals and legal scholars.

I know that in the late 1860s or early 1870s US Grant was stopped and ticketed by a DC Police officer for speeding in his carriage.

Supposedly, upon finding out that the speeder was the president the officer balked at issuing the ticket, but Grant said (supposedly) "Do your duty, my good man."
 
I have heard a rumor that at certain so-called town meetings, people from the other party were not allowed in the room. But after all, they tend to ask difficult questions, so I suppose it was understandable.
 
BT, you mean questions about how to pay for desired services, or whether individual responsibility exists? Those can get difficult... But I suspect we should avoid veering off into the political... And that we shouldn't wax poetic about the slaughter of our adversaries.
 
Well, then, how about this? Do you get searched (for weapons) when you go into one of those town meetings? And any question can be difficult if the person asking the question is "unfriendly." Doesn't matter what the question is. But we could ask about how to pay for wars, which is not necessarily a desired service, for instance.
 
Seems to me that would depend on where the town meeting is held. IIRC, NH has no ban on firearms at political gatherings. OTOH, courthouses in VA seem to have metal detectors. GA has detectors in some, but not all...

The question it raises is why should government employees be kept (theoretically) safer than / protected from the unwashed masses?

And if there are not detectors and armed security, why should we be required to give up our ability to defend ourselves? It is not as though bad things never happen on government property.
 
Absolutley not.

No one, not the secerate service, FBI, State police, military, bla bla bla, and so on and so forth and take you weapon for any reason without probable cause that you have commited a crime with them, are going to commit a crime, or are illigally in posession of those weapons. Not only would that be an illigal seizure, but it would also be a violation of the 9th amendment too.

I am law enforcement, and I'd rather be told that I'm fired then take a weapon from a person that believe is within their rights and is posing no threat to others. At least then I could join the "come and get them" Club.
 
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