From the Fringe- Can the Secret Service Legally Seize Your Guns?

He was from Kansas, not the District of Columbia. He never had jurisdiction. But he sounds just like the sort of person who winds up shooting his neighbor.
 
I have 2 neighbors that were SS.
One did visiting diplomat protection the other did executive protection. Not the POTUS though.

Both have told me in the process of doing their jobs they don't give a damn about laws. The only thing that matters is the protectees safety.

To their knowledge no SS agent has ever been charged with violating a statute when they acted in the course of doing their job.

You lay hands on the POTUS of verbally confront him you're going to eat pavement. If they think you have a weapon you're pretty much dead.

AFS
 
If they think you have a weapon you're pretty much dead.
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I am not sure what context you mean. There were people carrying rifles at Obama rallies in 2009.

I would say given the number of nutjobs out there having a mechanism to relieve someone of their guns if they prove to be a danger is a good thing. Showing up at someones house and taking their guns out of hand is over stepping.
 
It seems when it comes to those mechanisms to disarm people, the mechanisms are usually abused based upon someone's bias against guns and gun owners.

The potential for abuse it greater than the the potential for avoiding violence.
 
Neil Jednoralski claimed that he contacted Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, the Kansas Highway Patrol, and the Saline County Sheriff’s Office to ask for their help in arresting the president for illegally holding office as a foreign citizen, according to KSAL.
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Whack job, the whole birther thing is ridiculas.

Citizens arrest the pres of the USA? suicide mission.....
 
MTT TL said:
Ok, a birther trying to make a citizen's arrest of the president for illegally holding office is a little nutty.
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Only a 'little'?

Citizens Arrest

Why did the above link pop into my mind? I must have watched too much television as a child.
 
You lay hands on the POTUS of verbally confront him you're going to eat pavement. If they think you have a weapon you're pretty much dead.
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Wow, this is a statement with a lot of posturing, but not a lot of fact.

I am not sure what context you mean. There were people carrying rifles at Obama rallies in 2009.
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Right, there were several events where people toted guns in protest at Obama events. The only result I can recall is one guy being arrested for disorderly conduct and disrupting a public meeting and it wasn't the Secret Service that arrested the guy (John Noble). That was at a 2008 event. He was aquitted.

Several people have tried to kill the POTUS that were not themselves killed by the Secret Service. In fact, few get killed. By and large, they end up on trial.

Also, numerous people over the years have verbally confronted POTUS without the Secret Service doing anything to stop them, nor should they do anything. And there have been people who laid their hands on POTUS in a non-threatening manner and the Secret Service did nothing to them.

As for the Secret Service confiscating the birther's handcuffs and guns, I am surprised that they would do that without arresting him given his intent to illegally arrest and illegally imprison the POTUS.
 
Here's the rest of the story: http://www.saljournal.com/news/story/Jednoralski-final

If the article is correct, the Secret Service did not take Jednoralski's guns. I'd say that, if the Salina Journal is right, Neil Jednoralski is, to be kind, a wingnut.

Once or twice a year, one of these guys applies for membership in our gun club. Generally, we take their application under advisement and send them a nice letter declining it.
 
As for the Secret Service confiscating the birther's handcuffs and guns, I am surprised that they would do that without arresting him given his intent to illegally arrest and illegally imprison the POTUS.
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It is a fine line. If he were making threats to do harm they would have a clear case. But to an effect an "arrest"? I don't envy the agent that had to sit at the kitchen table with that guy.
 
I don't know about these birthers and other wackos, nor do I care to study them.

I do know a bit about the SS, part of my job as a bomb tech was working with the SS on dignitary security. My jot was some search and mostly setting around drinking coffee and BSing unless a suspected device was found.

The SS is a unique organization, unique people. The do things I certainly wouldnt' do. They act and worry later. Meaning their job is protection, that comes first and foremost. They do a dern good job. I see no problem disarming anyone if there was a hint of danger. If you are ligit, you get your weapon back, no problem. Sue if you will, but I doubt you'll get far.

I say they do things I would never do, let me give an example. We had the First Lady and VPs wife come to town. They were going to stay in one of our fancier hotels. I draw the detail and start to sweep the rooms.

The SS laughs and tells me they will handle it. They did, jumped up and down on the beds, flicked on and off light switches, etc etc, every thing you arn't suppose to do in searching for bombs. I say, "see ya" and go wait in the coffee shop in case they find something.

Those guys were amazing. They forego any thought to their safety to make sure those the are assigned to protect remain safe.

My hats off to them. I certainly wouldn't want to force the issue of my right to carry. There is a place for that, its called Court, if you figure you've been wronged.
 
I myself have not worked with the SS... however I ve been to plenty of government functions... The SS by its nature is responsible to guard heros and villans and every stripe in between regardless of whatever personal feelings.

Think every SS officer loves the current head of the executive branch? I highly doubt it, some could feel quite differently.. The bottom line however is these men and women are of the highest caliber and sworn to a duty as much as any member of the military, personal feelings are a luxury and not to be acted upon.

Standing, watching and waiting for endless hours in all environmental conditions and dealing with all manner of people and problems isnt much fun when your just watching some inanimate object or guarding a perimeter in the woods I image its much less so on the streets of whatever city.

I salute the SS and right or wrong they would always have my every respect for what they do...
 
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IMO: The Secret Service was remiss if they did not take the nutcases guns. This guy may go off and hurt or kill someone.
 
I don't envy the agent that had to sit at the kitchen table with that guy.
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Several years ago the Republic of Texas wackoes were doing their thing and getting in the news quite a bit. Some of them were quite articulate with their delusions and apparently consistent over time. Imagine the agents that need to interview those folks. They had essentially developed their own reality that they believed to be true...and then some of them went nuts out by Fort Davis in 1997 and that was the end of that.

There are some folks who have an altered sense of reality that is in continual flux and then there are those who have an altered sense of reality that is quite stable and even consistent over time. I am not sure where to even begin dealing with such folks.
 
I think the RoT fellows were simply check kiters that took the joke too far. Maybe someone believed their nonsense but they would have had to had a low IQ. This guy is in it because he is a true believer. Those are the more dangerous types.

Assuming he had been successful in his mission one wonders how he was going to hand over the Pres to the AG? Since he did not seem to have the "details worked out" he might have been a real danger.

The problem is that this strikes me as a whole "pre-crime" type event. I don't think that the SS was wrong in taking his guns away, I am just not sure about the legality of the mess.
 
I am just not sure about the legality of the mess
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Every hear of the TSA or the Patriot Act? Our country at this point in time seems to have little concern for the Constitution and even less so for law when it impedes any action of the executive branch and sub offices. The laws actual enforcment at the federal level seems to get very selective enforcment, very much a do as I say and not a do as I do.....

The SS has a mission to protect and I suspect they probably see it as being better to be sued for a illegal action than to miss something and end up with a compromised executive.

In my years in the military we use to say its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.
 
Aw, now I have to look up "Republic of Texas" just like I had to look up "birthers". I am sadly ignorant for an Internet-connected university-going 46 year-old American.
 
But does the Secret Service have legal grounds to take away his guns?
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Not a pro or con post.

I'll leave it to the legal beagles to post the relevant code.

The Secret Service doesn't fall under the umbrella of normal law enforcement agencies. When they are protecting someone, they can detain you without warrant, confiscate your weapons, search your home, or anything else they decide they want to do.

When the person they are protecting leaves the area, you fall back under normal laws of search/seizure/etc. Until then, they can do anything they feel is needed.

One of my relatives worked for the Secret Service, and arraigned for a special tour of the White House for my family. It was humbling to be in the rooms where decisions that changed the world were made, and just to know the history that happened in that building. The Oval Office was truly a mind-blowing experience.

The guys in the suits with the little earphones are the best of the best, but they are just the tip of the iceberg, it's the ones you don't see that really do the job and you won't know them unless you're really doing something wrong.

We also were able to go to the firing range under the FBI building, WOW... those guys were just.... WOW... even full auto....
 
To BGutzman, laws are selectively enforced at every level. You may not think that's right but I don't think you'd like it any other way either. It may not be a problem of law enforcement, it is more likely a problem of laws. Did you ever notice that any bill that goes through congress that is in someway called a "crime control bill" just makes more things illegal? More like a crime creation bill. Remember, it is possible to write laws in such a way that they cannot be obeyed. I honestly think red light cameras are timed that way.

One of my wife's co-workers' husband used to be a secret service agent at the White House and got them a tour (which didn't include me). My wife was very impressed but she also said it was obvious that the place (the West Wing) was a place where people did things because wear was obvious on the furniture and floor coverings.

I should point out here that when you live around here (20 miles from the back door of the White House, I like to say) and when your neighbors are in the service or with the government and when the D.C. area is home, you simply have a different attitude towards the federal government, no offense to those who happen to live elsewhere. In fact my wife was born about four or five blocks from the White House and we were also married there, across the street from where she was born. Her grandparents on her mother's side lived on Capital Hill, too.
 
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