From the Brown Bess to the M-16

[Mike Irwin]

Sorry, Rachen, you're wrong.

The Trapdoor system of rifles (both conversions and designed) served as the primary military military arm from 1870 to 1892.

Prior to 1870 the Trapdoors were not standard issue; they were largely experimental/test rifles that were used to work out a variety of issues, such as if converting Model 1863 rifled muskets with barrel liners and a breech mechanism was effective (it wasn't).

I THINK that the Model of 1870 was the first Trapdoor Springfield to be made from the ground up as a new rifle, and I believe it was also the first Trapdoor model selected as the standard service arm.

The Trapdoor served as the primary military firearm in Army service only until 1892, when it was replaced by the Model 1892 Krag-Jorgenson.

The Trapdoor soldiered on in military service with Volunteer Forces (Spanish-American War), and state militias and guards until just before World War II (in some cases), but it wasn't the standard long arm.

 

[Rachen]

Sorry, Rachen, you're wrong.

The Trapdoor system of rifles (both conversions and designed) served as the primary military military arm from 1870 to 1892.

OK I concede

I was reading an article on Eugene Stoner this morning, and since it talked about the M-16/AR being designed as early as the late 1950s, baptized by fire in combat in the early 60s, and is issued today in multiple variants made by manufacturers too numerous to count, that means over 50 going on 60+ years of continuous service. OK THAT sure beats the 1870s-90s window by a pretty big margin.

And unlike the Trapdoor, which already was seeing it's twilight once smokeless powder became developed, there are a gazillion companies making the AR today, all cool guys MUST have at least one, the military is using it, and photos of US troops training Afghan/Iraqi forces show even A2s and A1s being used, only means that it is not just here to stay, but is gonna continue to grow. Whew, ok that is impressive!

Interesting thing about the Trapdoor though, a few days ago I was in a Suffolk County gunshop and a guy was in there talking about how he owned a Uberti repro M1873 Trapdoor. While he was chatting with the guys behind the counter I saw he had a box of GRIZZLY .45-70 ammo in one hand turning it around and around looking at it. Though I primarily use commercial BP/smokeless lead ammo and handloads, I know right off the bat that Grizzly means +P and high chamber pressure and that means absolutely NO for trapdoor actions. I told the guy that and he said "Are you sure?". I reply "Does it say -not for use in trapdoor actions- somewhere on the box?" Turns out, it is right there on the box.

Incidentally, I don't know what "ship-smashing behemoths" you're talking about—the ones mounted on ships are usually part of the Phalanx CIWS (Close In Weapons System) for shooting down incoming low-flying anti-ship missiles. The system uses the same basic 20mm M61 Vulcan cannons that are commonly mounted on aircraft. Various NATO navies have reportedly been (semi-secretly) working on reprogramming the Phalanx system to counter potential torpedo-boat "swarm attacks" in littoral areas, but this is a bit different than full-blown anti-shipping use.

After seeing these systems in action with full speed fire, and the results of that fire, I could only say that anybody on the receiving end better pray to EVERY deity that existed in human history since the beginning of time for protection, cuz they' gonna need it. Even a thick-skinned combat vessel is going to like the result of a robot piranha swarm after getting a load of a battery of these things.

And just recently on CCTV 13 I was watching a Chinese PLA naval exercise and they unveiled a new, very high caliber rotary cannon system, possibly 40mm, on one of the newest destroyers of the fleet. It made a deep "thump thump thump" when it was being fired. Much slower rate than what NATO is using but I am sure that thing could be cranked up as well, and they were just literally shredding up a deserted island with it

 

[Mike Irwin]

Oddly enough, regarding the Trapdoor, it did serve in Naval and Coast Guard service into the post WW II era...

As a line throwing gun.

https://auctions.bidsquare.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/367/lot/135298

Blank ammunition was still being loaded in the middle of the War for these guns.

http://www.oldammo.com/august07.htm

As noted in the article, by WW II the Trapdoors were being phased out in favor of H&Rs based on their single shot shotgun action, but you will occasionally see photos of line throwing operations, especially on smaller, non combatant ships.