friends looking for pistol--4 Bosnia

AF Shooter: Yep, I know - hence the "blah-blah". Just a dumb pet peeve of mine when people say "Because of the Geneva Convention..." which we had nothing to do with.

As an aside to this aside, for antipersonnel use in a rifle, would hollowpoint ammo be any more effective? How dead is dead?
 
Regarding the Geneva convention:

I just went through two classes on the Law of War. We are not signatories to the Geneva Convention because of the nuclear clause. However, we FOLLOW it and as far as the UCMJ is concerned we are responsible for violating it. Although the argument could be made that it applies only in a declared war, there are a whole list of other violations (see Articles 92 and 134 UCMJ).

Son Tau,

Please don't give bad advice either. Encouraging or assisting another to commit an offense is also illegal. As a former Military Customs inspector, I can say that the whole vehicle is likely to be checked as well as all of a soldier's gear.

Fight the battles you can win with the tools you have and don't go looking for stupid ways to get in trouble. The dude would be better off worrying about mines than bringing his very own, look I'm so cool, pistol with him. Guys like that can rarely keep a secret anyways. If he doesn't already know what type of pistol is good enough to illegally take with him, then he probably doesn't know enough to effectively use it, and it's either a security blanket or a toy for show and tell.

Tom, weren't you in Osan, Korea?

Chuck
 
Chuck,
The vehicles getting checked is BS. In all the deployments I went on, people snuck foreign firearms, contraband of all sorts, i.e. drugs and Cuban cigars in the vehicles. Not one individual was caught. I was telling him experiences that I've seen.

I'm not dogging you specifically but military customs inspectors are terrible. If they checked every nook and cranny, all hell would break loose. Troops sneak back just anybody they can get their hands on.

If the idiot wants to sneak a gun overseas, he's gonna do it regardless of what we have to say. I mentioned the consequences of getting caught. Sorry, but I don't believe in snitching out my fellow troops.

You are correct when you say gear gets checked. However, our gear did not get checked. We stood upon higher standards than most troops. That does not mean that illegal activity ceased to exist within our battalion. I'm just stating the facts. We did not have our gear checked. Unless he's a ranger, he will have ALL his duffle bags and personal bags checked. Vehicles is a different story. He can do what he wants. It's his ass.

[This message has been edited by ArmySon (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
Glenn,

I think you're right. The Hague Accords were signed to ban weapons that would cause "unneccessary suffering" while the Geneva Conventions had more to do with the treatment of POWs and civilians and so forth.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous that armies that use napalm, toe-popper mines, white phosphorus shells, razor wire and fuel air explosives get so riled up over what shape the tip of a bullet is. When I was an infantryman, getting hit with a handgun bullet that might expand 0.3" was the least of my worries.

And as for the fears that a soldier might bring a weapon into a war zone...
tongue.gif
I guess it just shows that modern militaries are bureaucracies first and fighting machines second. I wouldn't risk the grief that would result from getting caught but I wouldn't consider anyone who tried it a major war criminal either.
 
The climate in this country is bad enough for those of us who abide by the law. As long as it is possible, I belive we should avoid even the preponderance of impropriety much less an outright violation of the law.This bulletin board should not be even remotely associated with anything outside of the bounds of UMCJ. I advise your friend to use what Uncle Sam issues him.

I am not flaming nor am I trying to be self-righteous but we are existing in perilous times. All this having been said, I will take the liberty to slighty alter a popular credit card advertising slogan: "9mm, it's everywhere you want to be".

Have a nice day-----WKB

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
Hey guys, I misspoke.

I just checked and the "we didn't sign the Geneva Covention" thing is a lot of crap. I just spoke with one of the lawyers here at the Military Police School. This is one of those military urban legends that refuses to die. We did sign the Geneva convention in the 40's, but we did not ratify the 1977 accord of something or other. So yes we are a part of it, and yes we are bound by it.

Other popular military rumors (generally heard from the infantry, no offense
smile.gif
) include:

1. It is illegal to shoot at paratroopers, so we don't, we shoot at their equipment.

The truth is that you can shoot at a paratrooper during an airborne assault, but a pilot ejecting is protected (until he hits the ground).

2. It is illegal to shoot the .50 cal at troops, so we shoot at their equipment.

This stems from the ammunition designed to cause needless suffering clause of the Geneva convention, which specifically outlaws, glass projectiles (archaic), dum-dum rounds, hollowpoints, and a few other things.

Just a little trivia. These are military rumors, which refuse to die. Sorry, I got my Law of War class mixed up with repetitive rumors.

For everyone that is about to contradict me on the Geneva convention, please check your facts first (from a qualified source). I would also recommend reading it for all those in the military. Oddly enough, the US Army publishes a copy.

ArmySon, it all depends on the inspector. All of those vehicles are supposed to be checked well, not only for contraband, but for dirt and critters, too. Yeah, some guys may get away with it, but then again they might not.

The point is, it's foolish. Though I know how, and anyone who has worked around the system does, I wouldn't do it for a variety of reasons.

Chuck
 
18908148,

He's going to Bosnia? Tell him not to bring a handgun but buy one locally. Best thing to do IF he wants to risk the consequences is to buddy up to a Brown & Root contractor (or somebody from Sprint) and have them get the weapon locally and bring it into the camp for him. Ditto for the ammo.

As a contractor that's been to Bosnia, I can tell you that some of the locals will even let you test fire weapons before purchasing them.

Worst thing that'll happen to a contractor is that they get sent home.

All in all, he's better off packing condoms than packing a pistol but that's only my 2 cents.


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Chuck,
I spent my time in Korea at "The Kun". Class of 92-93. Did get up to Osan from time to time for ABGD EX's. Always enjoyed great shopping, responsible drinking
wink.gif
, and dinner at Ms. Penney's.

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Tom Whitman
SSgt, USAF
 
Hey Chuck, yep that 50 cal stuff are rumors.
tongue.gif
I remember reading how the AA quad 50s on the back of a half-track worked wonders on Chinese mass infantry attacks in Korea. And how about Sgt. Hathcock using an M2 for a 2000 meter shot in Vietnam?

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Circlesqr
HAHA pack condoms? I assume you met some of the local "workers". Did you get a chance to go up to Taszar, Hungary?
 
The original post is nearly 5 months old. I'm sure this guy has either been discovered by now or has taken our advice.

I honestly though this post was OLDER than 5 months. Seems like a LONG time ago that I responded to this thing.

Ben

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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
 
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