Friends has an attempted break-in last night.

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Oleg Volk

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I have a friend whom I trained a bit. I helped him pick out a S&W 10 (with the action better than any of my guns) and taught him to hit the target atthe range.

Last night his wife and daughter woke him up at 4am: someone was banging on their door. My friend, a former martial artist+wrestler, got his knife and went to investigate. The guy flailing at the door left.

He came back 10-15 minutes later. At that point the S&W came out, got loaded and brought to the door. The moron stopped banging and left quickly.

Now my friend had a problem: he thumb-cocked his gun and wasn't sure he could lower the hammer safely. Ended up firing it into a barrel with packing material in it to muffle the noise. He wants to get more training now, recognizing the deficiency of the response. Wonder if his wife+daughter will take me up on the offer of range time.

BTW, that even could be viewed as an argument for DAO guns, though I's recommend more training instead.

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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
I'm more than a bit disappointed that he couldnt make a complete safe weapon without firing a round...
this is the third post in the last week or so where I feel BASIC knowledge of firearm handling is either not learned or ignored.
We gotta tighten up folks... I love firearms but I'm gonna draw the line somewhere and switch sides if this keeps up.
 
Thats why I'm going to pick up a double action revolver. Leave an empty under the pin. If you need to shoot you can.
 
Mongrel...
Granted it wasn't the most ideal turnout..but there was no AD or ND and the guy responsibly cleared the weapon, given his limitations.
I have an old style Ruger Blackhawk .357....it does take practice to build confidence when lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber. Most newbies feel that a cartridge is as sensitive as nitroglycerin.

I think it would be a lot more constructive of you to train people and contribute to safe gun handling rather than to continually threaten to join HCI et al. Anyone can complain, it costs nothing....it does cost to contribute.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Jeffer,
Why? I know of no revolver capable of "spontanious discharge." Basic training and cursory familiarity with one's weapon will solve any such "problems."

Erik
 
The guy's schedule and the distance between his home and the nearest range make it hard for him to practice. He did follow safety rules in that he fired off that round into a safe backstop without endangering or even waking the neighbors. I am taking him to the range in two weeks for a refresher and will recommend a professionally taught course.

He had de-cocked that revolver at the range just fine; I am guessing that he did not trust his hand not to slip under stress. I have talked to police officers who pulled the trigger instead of the de-cocker when trying to clear their guns after confrontations: they knew and practiced the right way but failed when scared for their lives.

As for your intent to switch sides: why would you waive your own rights and then strive to deprive others of their rights based on something done by a third party? Seems like you are into the concept of collective responsibility, and that notion is not much liked by free people.

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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Oleg,

Pardon me, but this is a stupid question.

Why didn't he 1) drop the mag, and 2) work the slide to eject the round?

When a BG comes a' knockin', that's when the brain's gotta go into HIGH GEAR, rather than shut down.

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CR*P! Just re-read the model. Sorry! (DOH! Head slap)


[This message has been edited by Dennis Olson (edited March 13, 2000).]
 
Dennis: The handgun in question is a S&W Model 10 revolver. Dropping the mag and racking the slide wouldn't work very well. :)
 
Dennis, his gun was a 4" DA .38 revolver. He probably thumbcocked it out of habit (shoots mostly SA at the range). That is one reason why I prefer Glocks for SHTF situations. He turned down my offer to loan a Makarov pistol as the S&W is simpler but, obviously, not fool-proof. My friend is getting more training stat.

FWIW, when I was learning to shoot, an acquaintance started me out with .22, then gave me a .357 snubbie loaded with .38spl and taped a thumb-tack to the hammer. "Don't cock it manually", he said "you shouldn't do that in real life and you train for that."

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited March 13, 2000).]
 
Muzzle pointed in a safe direction and finger off trigger and resting on frame.

Place thumb of weak hand on frame such that it blocks the forward motion of the hammer.

Keeping thumb of weak hand on frame and thumb of strong hand on hammer, squeeze the trigger to release the hammer.

The thumb of the strong hand controls the forward movement of the hammer. As the hammer moves forward, slowly move the thumb of the weak hand out of the hammer's path.

It may hurt if you do it wrong, but you won't get an unintentional discharge.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
As I mentioned, he know how to do it. At 4:30am he just did not feel up to it and, fortunately, had a way out of the situation. Wasn't elegant but it worked without endangering anyone.
 
The reason for leaving an empty under the hammer is that old “just in case“.
I feel better safe than sorry. You never know when the gun might get knocked to the floor.
 
Most double-action revolvers are drop-safe. Only a few single action models aren't the the practice dates back to the days of percussion arms. However, avoiding accidental discharges is a good reason to keep that hammer uncocked and fire double action is necessary.
 
mongrel66--

Oleg's friend committed ERROR after ERROR... and still compromised no innocent person's safety. He needs better training, yes.

He needs to store his pistol more readily available, yes.

He needs to be able to clear his weapon with confidence, yes.

But does his action constitute a danger to you, such that you would wish to become oppressive to our rights to keep and bear arms?

If so, I respectfully submit that you're no advocate of the right in the first place. But then, you knew that, didn't you?
 
Incidentally, it is possible that the intruder was a local drunk (i.e. co-worker whos emother lives next to my friend thinks she knows who that guy is). My friend never pointed the revolver at anyone and was aware of having committed many errors after he calmed down.

He is getting more training. His family got an obect lesson on the usefulness of arms AND training to go with them. However, he claimes to have remembered the rules: don't point till ready to fire, do not put finger on the trigger (which is why, I think, he was so uptight about pulling the trigger to de-cock).
 
My hats off to Oleg (and others) who is doing what they can to help newbie gun owners. I ESPECIALLY like the part where Oleg reccomends that newbie see a proffessional. I think we All need to introduce non shooters..take them out to the range for an intro.Then turn them over to a pro. :) :)
 
Which reminds me: please recommend firearms training around Minneapolis, MN. Not so much the officially-mandated "carry class" as more general intro to combat handgunning, tech and legal aspects.
 
I'm sorry - this guy needs serious training and a modicum of common sense.

1. Going to the door with a knife when he
had a gun. Going to face the attacker when
he broke through the door with unknown
weapons. Martial artist - my butt.

Door kicks in and there's a sawed off
shotgun. Gung fu that sucker.

2. Why didn't he call the cops! Dumb, dumb.

3. The thumb cocking trick - if you have
lethal equipment you better know how to
use it.

I'm glad he survived and I'm glad he was shocked enough by his inadequacy response to get training.

His first response to go the door with a knife was as foolish as his second misadventure.

First response, gather everyone is safe room.
Call cops.
Take up a position of cover if possible or
concealment and wait to see what happens with the door.

Nuance - if you have external lights and alarm - trigger them.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glenn E. Meyer:
I'm sorry - this guy needs serious training and a modicum of common sense.[/quote]

Agrred.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
1. Going to the door with a knife when he
had a gun. Going to face the attacker when
he broke through the door with unknown
weapons. Martial artist - my butt.
[/quote]
Actually a former MA chap back in the Ukraine, methinks. Shows that common sense isn't always acquired with buttkicking lessons.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
2. Why didn't he call the cops! Dumb, dumb.
[/quote]

Not wanting to call them over sm-th that could have been innocuous, I suppose...and I doubt that he trusts cops much.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
3. The thumb cocking trick - if you have
lethal equipment you better know how to
use it.
[/quote]

Yep. Will see to it that he learns better.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
His first response to go the door with a knife was as foolish as his second misadventure.
[/quote]

Up to now he was comre concerned that his 5-y.o. son would find the gun that with intruders. Maybe he'd go buy that safe I recommended to him.

First response, gather everyone is safe room.
Call cops.
Take up a position of cover if possible or
concealment and wait to see what happens with the door.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Nuance - if you have external lights and alarm - trigger them.
[/quote]
He has automatic floodlights. Trouble is his place is built so he can't see the front porch that easily...

I might recommend training inside his house with toy guns.
 
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